Wednesday, September 5, 2007

Good fold? Weak tight? Same difference?

I think this was a good fold by me on the river, being that there weren't too many hands that I could beat. If it were a bluff by the villain, I think that's just a great read and play. But it still sucks to have to fold a flopped straight. Did I play too weak on the other streets?

Table Rose Canyon - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:40:53 ET - 2007/09/04

9 handed table. Villain and I both have about the same stack around the original buy-in.

I'm UTG, villain is on the button.

Dealt to RecessRampage [Ad Qc]
RecessRampage raises to $14
Everyone else folds
Villain calls $14
SB folds
BB folds

*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd Jc]
RecessRampage checks
Villain bets $22
RecessRampage raises to $66
Villain calls $44

The pot has about $34, I checkraise. You could make the argument for betting out here and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. So, I'm not that interested in the "you shoulda bet out here" argument because this is just a variation. It's very rare that I check raise so I like to incorporate checkraises once in a while, both with a made hand or a draw. Here, I have the nuts and probably 7 out of 10 times, I bet out. So, why am I posting this hand if I'm not interested in comments? I am. Was the checkraise amount not enough? Should I have checkraised more? In reviewing this hand, I don't mind the checkraise here. Granted, he only has to call $44 more to see another card when the pot already has $120. But if he's drawing to the flush, he's still not getting a good price since if the next card is a blank, I'm gonna price him out.

*** TURN *** [Tc Kd Jc] [6c]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $80
Villain calls $80

Well, this is where it gets interesting. The third club comes. However, I am not giving him credit for a flush just yet. He could have a flush but what would he have that he calls a preflop raise on this board that would have a flush? Ax of clubs? Can't be AQ of clubs since I have the Qc. AK of clubs? I guess at this point, I'm thinking it's more likely for him to have two pair? I don't know. This is where I start getting a little confused and I'm not sure how I feel about this call. Did I bet too little? Should I have checked? I'm interested in your thoughts on my turn play.

*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd Jc 6c] [Js]
RecessRampage checks
Villain bets $264.40, and is all in
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage folds
Uncalled bet of $264.40 returned to Villain
Villain mucks
Villain wins the pot ($323)

At this point, I'm not sure what I could beat. Since there were too many hands that I thought could beat me, I decided to let it go and wait for a better spot. Was that too weak? Or was that a good fold. I think it's a good fold but it always sucks to throw away hands like this...

On a totally different note, yesterday was our home game, the PAPT. There were only 7 runners and I really couldn't get anything going and in the end, I donked off my chips with A-10 sooooooooted when it was down to 5 handed play against Tyke's AA. I'm sorry. I meant Tyke's second AA of the night. Along with the KK that he had earlier. Can't beat a luckbox! :) In the end, Tyke took second place to inch closer to Ramel in the PAPT leaderboard.


Eric a.k.a. Bone Daddy said...

Paint heavy boards are the devils workshop, as you will never know where the hell you are in the hand, is it a fish over playing ace king/queen/jack, flush or does he too have the straight?

I might of check raised a bit more and been done with the hand if he called, but I will be shocked if anyone thinks there is a correct way to play this hand. I guess dolyee would of pushed him all in on the check raise, but he has paid off a lot of people in his life time too.

I'm a firm believer in the cash game, with so many outs against you, wait for a better chance to put our coin in the middle.

Thanks for the comments on the iron man, I don't know how I haven't qualifed in the past, I must have but just never kept track of it, but it is a good means to keep a steady pace of hands each month.

Fuel55 said...

At best you are looking a chop. I am not sure why this guy jammed the river if h realy wanted a caller though ... Could be an overbet for value I suppose.

Alan aka RecessRampage said...

Fuel, exactly my thought. I guess I thought maybe he has a boat and wants the flush to pay him off. Or he's a donkey with the flush who shoves when the board gets dangerous... lucky for him, no boat for me. Plus, his all in is actually just about the pot size so it's not a crazy overbet.

Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Nice post and a good question, Alan. I think I like the fold here. I don't think it's reasonable to put him on trip Jacks necessarily given that painty flop, but I bet he had the flush given his allin bet on the river there. It's a good fold I think.

And I like your checkraise on the flop perfectly, including the size of just 3x his original flop bet. With a flopped flush, you should want him to call that bet. So I wouldn't worry much about it not being big enough. Nice play.

Mike Maloney said...

I think a check-raise is fine, but I probably would have gone higher.

Good idea to fold on the river, though. Seems like a high probability for a flush or a boat, and you really can't beat anything outside of 2 pair, which I doubt he has.

Tough break, but as we all know, flopped straights never win.

Ryan said...

i like your line throughout the hand...i'm the opposite of you, i check-raise too often sometimes. the amount is fine because it can keep him in with some idiot top pair hand as well as having him put some money in slightly bad with a draw.

the turn is scary, but i like the bet there.

on the river you're right, there just isn't much you're beating that could call a check-raise and then call the turn. you pretty much have to fold here.

if he was bluffing you he's an idiot and he's going broke soon enough. anything with marginal showdown value would (should) be checking here so he can only realistically have a monster or nothing. i don't think he has nothing enough here for you to call.

Gnome said...

I don't like the check-raise nor the amount. If you have to check-raise, a full pot-sized raise would be to $100. If your opponent called, that would put $234 in the pot, and I would bet big on the turn, committing myself with the redraw to the Q-high flush.
The fold on the river is OK.

SubZero said...

Lots of interesting variations here, but I think it's all dependent on your opponent and your image: If you're playing 'crazy', check-raise allin on the flop. If you're playing tight, check-raise pot instead. If you're playing loose, bet the pot on the flop, and if he hesitates before calling, jam the turn.
That said, I think you played it roughly right.