Finishing up the KK hand

Great comments everyone so thank you for that. Hell, Jordan even went as far to do a whole post on it. The reason why I posted this in the first place was because I really wasn't sure what the best course of action was and what I ended up doing resulted in me doing the "right" thing money wise but I was certain that whatever analysis I did at that point would be almost impossible for it to not be results oriented so I decided to pose the question here.

As you loyal readers know, I've pretty much abandoned strategy/poker thought posts and even though part of it could be blamed on me doing other things and not having as much time or the desire to put the effort into blogging, part of me was that I no longer wanted to share my thoughts and hole cards publicly where I don't even change my screenname (even if I did, you can still google recessrampage and you will come here, I think) so I just thought it would be -EV. However, there's a good chance I'm gonna kill my RecessRampage account so I figured I don't really care anymore. But that's for a different post.

On the KK hand, here's the recap.

Full Tilt Poker Game #12167653280: Table Stonewater - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:19:34 ET - 2009/05/11
Seat 1: The Jeltz ($207.15)
Seat 2: ZMAE ($137.25)
Seat 3: eddymoosh ($87.15)
Seat 4: pmow2131 ($358.15)
Seat 5: AAces Again ($159.65)
Seat 6: RecessRampage ($200)
Seat 7: prettydevil1 ($200)
Seat 8: zoitkiller ($298.80)
Seat 9: bombkiller ($273.75)
The Jeltz posts the small blind of $1
ZMAE posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Kc Kh]
eddymoosh calls $2
pmow2131 folds
AAces Again folds
RecessRampage raises to $9
prettydevil1 has 15 seconds left to act
prettydevil1 folds
zoitkiller calls $9
bombkiller calls $9
The Jeltz folds
ZMAE calls $7
eddymoosh calls $7

I'm not gonna lie, when the two guys behind me called, I was hoping one of the blinds would try to squeeze. Instead, I am in a nightmare situation with KK seeing a flop 5 handed.

*** FLOP *** [Jc 8s 9d]
ZMAE has 15 seconds left to act
ZMAE checks
eddymoosh checks
RecessRampage ???

And this is where I left off. The flop is freakin horrible for KK in a 5 handed pot. With so many callers, the board is more likely to have hit someone. The question is how strong? There was the UTG limper who then called my raise after 3 other callers (including the blind). So I eliminate AA or QQ from UTG because he would have to repop and as a shorty, actually, I felt that it was more likely that he didn't have a pair at all because it would just seem so standard for the shorty to shove in that spot hoping for a race. The question was the BB. He could really have anything so at this point, I wasn't interested in narrowing down his hand range. The CO and the button's range was tricky but I felt that the button would have tried to squeeze if he had a hand like AK or AQ so he probably also had a moderate strength hand.

In other words, a lot of the preflop action lead me to believe that everyone had a moderate strength hand so I was about to bet for approximately $35 like a lot of people advocated. The problem was, if I get called from either the CO or Button, there's really no card I would like to see other than KK. So I felt like I was setting myself off to get bluffed off what could be the best hand. On the same token, I couldn't shove over the top if someone were to raise me so in the end, I decided that if I bet out here, I would be turning what could still be my best hand into a bluff. Rather, I want to see what develops. My thought was that if either the CO or Button bets and the two players in front of me folds, I was gonna call and then lead out on the blank turn. I felt that against the CO/Button's range that would bet the flop, I have a better chance of being ahead. Again, this could be a wrong train of thought but that's what I was thinking (honesty HAS TO count for something, right?). And this is also one of those spots where I would rather have QQ instead of KK so that I would also have a inside straight draw...

So anyways, this is what I did...

RecessRampage checks
zoitkiller has 15 seconds left to act
zoitkiller bets $36
bombkiller folds
ZMAE folds
eddymoosh raises to $78.15, and is all in
RecessRampage folds
RecessRampage adds $9
zoitkiller calls $42.15
eddymoosh shows [Ts Qd]
zoitkiller shows [Jd Jh]
*** TURN *** [Jc 8s 9d] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 8s 9d 5c] [2c]
eddymoosh shows a straight, Queen high
zoitkiller shows three of a kind, Jacks
eddymoosh wins the pot ($199.30) with a straight, Queen high

I was shocked to see the top set from the CO. I couldn't believe that he didn't repop me pre. And again, as I mentioned above, if no one came over the top, I would have called and when the 5 came, I probably would have bet into the guy so I would have lost more money in that scenario but I felt that he could easily do this with JT, T9, AJ which are all realistic holdings. Of course, 88 and 99 came into my head but you really can't always be afraid of sets. And being that my line would be really weird (call flop OOP and then bet into the guy on the turn), I think a lot of worse hands will still call.

Again, I really don't know what the best line to take in this situation. I agree with the thoughts of cbetting but I'm also wondering if varying the amount would be an option. Maybe instead of betting $35-40, what about betting about half pot? Maybe like $25ish? Despite all the comments though, I really hate betting out here because my hand can't stand up to a raise and most hands that I even beat are gonna raise me, including the ones that I am losing to. In other words, all sets, flopped straights, two pair, JT, 9T, 8T will probably all raise me... Betting out just seems a little spewy, even if that's the right answer.

Anyone have a more compelling argument here?

Yet another Question for the KK hand

Great responses so far so I thank you all for that. I think most of you mentioned to cbet about $30-35 and a lot of people went as far (I think) to say "to find out where you are at." I've decided that I actually hate betting for information. But that's neither here nor there. My question is this.

Is your C-bet a bluff or a value bet?

In other words, if you bet and a guy in position calls you, now what? Do you fire another bullet on a blank turn? What cards are you afraid of seeing on the turn? Or, the shorter list might be, what cards do you want to see on the turn?

The reason I ask that is that I'm trying to ask myself this question more and more before I bet. Am I betting for value or am I bluffing? For those of you that say that you're betting for value, what would you do with the hand if you get raised on the flop? If you say fold, then you're effectively bluffing. I mean you might as well have 25o and it wouldn't make a difference, would it (at least if you look at the flop situation in a vacuum)?

If you say you're betting for value but if you get raised, then you realize that even though you thought you're betting for value, it turns out you might not have a good enough hand to withstand a raise... I can buy that argument too. But do you think an AJ would raise here or just call you?

Honestly, I guess my biggest concern is having two people behind me right? In other words, I want to know your thoughts more on what to do on the turn then if you cbet and just get called. Do you check/call turn? Then what do you do on the river? Hope for check/check?

Great comments so far... hopefully this will continue. I'll def post the hand but I'll wait till tomorrow to give some of the stragglers some time to catch up on my blog.


One quick pimpage - I gave Brue some shit about his offer to coach but I'll say this... if you guys like my hand history stuff, you should def be reading Brack/Brue's blog. Their recap of High Stakes poker has been very solid and entertaining at the same time. The HHs could be a bit dry sometimes but I think there's a lot of gold there and the stakes that Brue plays is def not indicative of his skill level (he's more of a .05/.10 fishie swimming in the 1-2nl waters :) )

OMG A poker post!

I'm not really sure what compelled me to post this... But as I was feeling lazy, I opted to skip my workout last night and instead 6 table on FTP and ran into this situation which I thought was kinda interesting.

1-2NL 9 players, I'm in MP

Edit: Cmitch, thanks, I'm an idiot

Seat 1: The Jeltz ($207.15)
Seat 2: ZMAE ($137.25)
Seat 3: eddymoosh ($87.15)
Seat 4: pmow2131 ($358.15)
Seat 5: AAces Again ($159.65)
Seat 6: RecessRampage ($200)
Seat 7: prettydevil1 ($200)
Seat 8: zoitkiller ($298.80)
Seat 9: bombkiller ($273.75)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Kc Kh]
eddymoosh calls $2
pmow2131 folds
AAces Again folds
RecessRampage raises to $9
prettydevil1 has 15 seconds left to act
prettydevil1 folds
zoitkiller calls $9
bombkiller calls $9
The Jeltz folds
ZMAE calls $7
eddymoosh calls $7

So I get dealt Bayne's favorite hand and then I'm mortified to see 4 callers. Pretty sure seeing a flop with 5 people holding KK is a shitty situation. I mean how often do you go into a flop wishing to hit a set with KK (except Bayne)??

*** FLOP *** [Jc 8s 9d] Pot size $45
ZMAE has 15 seconds left to act
ZMAE checks
eddymoosh checks
RecessRampage ???

So, here's the question. What would you do? In order to prevent anyone from being result oriented, I will post the results later. Being that I haven't posted anything poker related in a while, I might not get much response... or it might take a while for people to catch on/see it but nonetheless, let me know what you think. Do you throw out a standard cbet? If so, how much? Do you check here to see what the others would do? Any reasoning to your answer would be very helpful too.

200BBs deep cash - Should I be willing to stack off?

I'm pulling a bait and switch here... well, not really. I am gonna talk about a couple of situations I encountered when playing deep stack tables but I've just been running so bad that I feel like if I wanted to, I can compile a bad beat post every night (even though, after I saved this hand, I stacked off a guy who had KK with my AJ sooted when the flush hit the river)...

But you know you're running bad when on this flop, I actually cringed when our cards are flipped. Fortunately, this guy was ubershort... I have no idea why he didn't jam me pre. And yes, obv, I raised pre.

9 players 2-4NL

*** FLOP *** [5s 2h 9d]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $26
teabag2512 calls $26, and is all in
RecessRampage shows [Ad Ac]
teabag2512 shows [7c 7h]

*** TURN *** [5s 2h 9d] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [5s 2h 9d 6c] [8s]
RecessRampage shows a pair of Aces
teabag2512 shows a straight, Nine high
teabag2512 wins the pot ($83) with a straight, Nine high
RecessRampage adds $9.70

The dollar amount is next to nothing but it just fucks with your mind. I don't blame him for calling the flop. I mean I'm betting out there with ATC if I'm raising for only $26 more but it's more an illustration of how Fulltilt likes fucking with my head... that still doesn't stop me from coming back so I apparently like... woah, I'm not even gonna finish that sentence.

Ok, on to the thoughts I had when playing the deep stack tables. One thing I am kinda struggling with right now is figuring out where the line is in terms of playing aggressively vs cautiously when I have a decent draw. I have no problem playing aggressively but I don't want to be an aggrotard either. So, I always feel like I need to check myself to make sure that I am correctly being aggressive as opposed to just being reckless.

Also note, I'm using the hands below as examples BUT I am gonna change or edit out the results because I want more of a situational thought... hmmmm, let me see. How can I explain that better. Whether I won or lost the pot is irrelevant and actually, how the hand ends is also irrelevant. My question, as you will see, came more out of while the opponent was thinking, I thought to myself "what am I gonna do if my opponent does (raise or call)?" (folding obv ends the hand so I don't have to ask myself that question)

Also assume I have no information on the player in this first hand.

Deep 2-4NL Full Ring
Relevant stacks

Seat 4: lvis2000 ($570.50)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($885)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [6d 5d]
UTG calls $4
1 fold
lvis2000 has 15 seconds left to act
lvis2000 calls $4
2 folds
RecessRampage raises to $22 from CO
button, SB, BB all fold
UTG folds
lvis2000 calls $18

Someone is inevitably gonna ask why I raised pre with 56s. I have no good answers that will satisfy you so I'm not even gonna go there. If I say "to punish the limpers" some people will be happy so I'll say that.

*** FLOP *** [3d 4h 8d]
lvis2000 has 15 seconds left to act
lvis2000 checks
RecessRampage bets $42
lvis2000 has 15 seconds left to act
lvis2000 calls $42

The flop, considering my cards is a pretty awesome one, obviously. I think based on this board, I should be willing to stack off right? That's obvious to all, I'm assuming, even if we're deep. Yes or no?

Better yet, if lvis2000 checkraises me, what would you do? Would you just call or ship it in?

*** TURN *** [3d 4h 8d] [Kd]
lvis2000 has 15 seconds left to act
lvis2000 checks
RecessRampage ???

Now your flush card hit. What do you do here? Bet for value? Or check to induce value on the river? I think that's easy.

But the question is, what if you bet and he jams? Granted, since he only started with $570, it's not as much but are you willing to call off that much with a 6 high flush (yes, I know it's K high but for all intensive purposes, I think you know what I mean)? What if he also started the hand with $800. Let's say you bet like $105 (pot is $120ish) and he raises you to like $500, effectively committing himself (by leaving himself $135). Do you ship it in? In other words, on the flop, you thought you flopped gold. And on the turn when the card that made your hand comes, all of a sudden the opponent acts like he hit it bigger which is also possible. Does being ddep make a difference?

Just curious as to the thoughts and how different it might be at a deep table.

Ok, the next one, the BB is a little more aggressive but probably solidly so. Nothing too crazy or out of line so his reraise range is decent but so is my button raising range so I don't think either one of us are going out of line.

2-4NL Deep full ring

Relevant stacks
BB ($961.90)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($794)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Kh Jh]
everyone folds to me on the button
RecessRampage raises to $14
SB folds
BB has 15 seconds left to act
BB raises to $48
RecessRampage calls $34

We're both deep but anyone let this hand go here? What's your calling range if you fold here? I would assume that your calling range would be polarized so you can list them out. If you say JJ+ or something ridiculous like that... well, that's just ridiculous. Again, keep in mind that the BB here is RRing me fairly light. Another question here would be would you 4 bet here? I wouldn't and I have my reasons that I could go into but I won't for now just so I don't taint anyone else's thoughts first.

*** FLOP *** [6h 8c 2h]
BB has 15 seconds left to act
BB bets $64
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage xxx

Raise or call here? If raise, to how much? If you raise and he reraises you, do you ship it in?

*** TURN *** [6h 8c 2h] [Td]
BB xxxx

Now what? I'm not gonna tell you what the BB did but instead I'll offer you a few scenarios.

What would you do if he checks? Check behind or bet? What if he checkraises you? Ship it in?

What if he fires out another bullet? Raise with the intent of calling a shove? I guess this depends on the previous street's action. Let's say you raised him and he just called but he bets out again. Now what? Shove? Just call?

These are some questions that were swirling in my head as I played this hand out. Again, this may not be the same questions I would have if we were only 100BBs deep. But with 200BBs deep, I wasn't sure if that changes a lot in these situations or not. Thoughts would be appreciated. And since Brue will respond if I link him cuz he's a link whore, Brue, here's my linkage to you. Comment away you math geek.

Checking the turn and calling the river with an overpair

I am in training all week so I don't have any internet access (well, I do but very limited opportunity to be online) and as such, I won't be able to post much... though admittedly, recently, I haven't really been posting much. I've been pretty busy during the day at work and that was usually when I used to blog so hence the decline... It is great that the football season is back... and I mean, how bout them ECU Pirates!? Funny thing is, on Saturday, when I woke up around 11:30am, I thought about actually driving down to Greenville... but then again, I thought, with the hurricane and stuff, I won't bother... too bad cuz I coulda seen them punk WVU live. Pat Who!? I love it. I mean the mountaineers were pwned. And now, ECU is ranked #14. First time that they're in the top 25 since the David Garrard era. That win against WVU was almost as big as the win against Miami back in 1999... I will say the only difference is that in 1999, the game was actually held at NC State because Hurricane Floyd (or Fran... I can't remember) flooded the campus. To say that that was a memorable win is an understatement... anyways... I feel like I need to post some poker related stuff... after all, this is supposed to be a poker blog... I just haven't had a chance to really sit down and think about what to post and such.

So, following is a situation which I thought might illustrate situations where it's probably a good idea not to go too crazy with an overpair.

1-2NL Full Ring
Relevant stacks:

Seat 3: RecessRampage ($245.05)
Seat 8: UTG ($166.80)
Seat 9: UTG+1 ($220.05)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Qh Qd]
UTG calls $2
UTG+1 calls $2
2 folds
RecessRampage raises to $11 from MP
4 folds
UTG calls $9
UTG+1 calls $9

*** FLOP *** [5s Jd 8h]
UTG checks
UTG+1 checks
RecessRampage bets $25
UTG has 15 seconds left to act
UTG calls $25
UTG+1 folds

So here, pretty standard. I have an overpair, the flop is jack high so I cbet. I get one caller from the UTG who limp called the raise preflop. At this point, I'm putting him on a hand like middle pair, maybe a J, possibly a straight draw and maybe a set.

*** TURN *** [5s Jd 8h] [Kh]
UTG checks
RecessRampage checks

When the K came, I actually wasn't too worried about him hitting a king. I mean there's really only one hand that he could have here that would make sense for him to have a K and that is KJ. Admittedly, above, I mentioned that he could have a straight draw but during the hand, I think I actually felt that he was more likely to have a pocket pair than he would have a straight draw like T9 or 67. I don't really know why, it was kind of a feeling that I had where I felt that this player was more likely to limp/call a raise pre with a pocket pair rather than a connector. Based on that read, I decided that checking here would be ok. With the K hitting, if I bet, I felt that all worse hands would fold (except maybe JT or something, which is only a part of his hand range which includes any pocket pair) and I could be put in an awkward spot if I get checkraised. So, I decided to check behind.

*** RIVER *** [5s Jd 8h Kh] [7d]
UTG has 15 seconds left to act
UTG bets $50
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage calls $50

On the river, I'm not gonna lie. I actually hated that card since it hits another pocket pair that I thought he could have. It also completes a straight draw even though I felt that that was less likely. I really felt that on the flop, it was likely that he either had a set or a middle pair. 7 is right around the spot that would hit also though, if he did float me on the flop with middle pair and the fact that he's betting out the river indicates that he has a hand. The thing is, in this instance, the way I played it, I would have to pretty much call every single time because my hand is so underrepresented. However, this board is actually getting crappier and crappier for my hand so maybe there's a case to be made for folding. But based on the way I played this, there's no way for my opponent to think that I would have an overpair. So, considering that, I made the call. The more and more I think about this hand, I'm just not sure if in the long run I'm losing value here or on the turn.

In this hand though, it turns out I saved some money... of course, that's just results oriented thinking...

*** SHOW DOWN ***
UTG shows [Jc Jh] three of a kind, Jacks
RecessRampage mucks
UTG wins the pot ($183) with three of a kind, Jacks
RecessRampage adds $40.95

Of course, jacks was not a hand that I thought he could have. How he doesn't raise with jacks from UTG is beyond me but, to each their own.

Would you have played it differently? (I'm assuming a lot of you would) Any feedback would be appreciated. Have a nice week. It's very unlikely that I will post anything until the weekend.

Revisiting tricky spots

So I presented a few tricky spots yesterday where I wasn't sure what the best line was. On Hand 1, a lot of you indicated folding or check calling... in looking back, I do agree that that was probably best, mainly because there aren't any hands that would realistically call me with hands that are worse than mine. But... being the 6 max aggro monkey that I am, I ended up jamming in Hand 1.

Full Ring - 2-4NL, relevant stacks
Villain ($486.90)
Hero ($433)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ah Kh]
2 folds
Hero raises to $14
1 fold
Villain calls $14 from CO
Button and both blinds fold

*** FLOP *** [Kc 5c 5d]
Hero bets $24
Villain calls $24

*** TURN *** [Kc 5c 5d] [Th]
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $65
Villain raises to $130
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero ???

I jammed here, got instacalled by KK. That was one hand I DID NOT expect to see. Again, I think most of you had it right. Folding or even check calling would have saved me money.

Hand #2

Another full ring table 2-4NL (7 players in hand)
Relevant stacks:

Villain ($253.40) <--- BB
Hero ($416)

One additional info is that villain calls A LOT of hands preflop. I don't have the stats with me but his VP$IP was like 35-40%.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Jc Tc]
Hero raises to $14
5 folds
Villain calls $10

*** FLOP *** [7s Qs Jh]
Villain checks
Hero bets $22
Villain calls $22

*** TURN *** [7s Qs Jh] [Qd]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $44
Hero calls $44

*** RIVER *** [7s Qs Jh Qd] [Kc]
Villain bets $162
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero ???

I ended up making a hero call here. I didn't like my hand enough to make a raise on the turn so I called to keep the pot small. On the river, I felt that he either had T9 that got there or it's a missed flush draw and I have seen him take stabs like that... I mean you kinda have to if you're a loose player... He flips over Q9 and I lose another pot. I was shocked to see a Q in his hand.

See, but then hands like this happen where I kinda hate the spot I'm in and yet I make a call based on the fact that the sequence doesn't make sense and I turn out to be right...

6 max - 2-4NL

Seat 1: tturquoise ($923.10)
Seat 2: SkeetOnQQ ($533)
Seat 3: RecessRampage ($402) <--- SB
Seat 4: Mano Nera ($1,167.95) <--- BB
Seat 5: TooCool4Skool ($613)
Seat 6: slypigdave ($790.50)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Jc]
3 folds
SkeetOnQQ raises to $12 <--- button
RecessRampage raises to $40 <--- SB
Mano Nera calls $36 <--- uh oh
SkeetOnQQ calls $28 <--- adlfkjadklfjljsdfjakljd

*** FLOP *** [6s 5h Jd]
RecessRampage checks
Mano Nera checks
SkeetOnQQ has 15 seconds left to act
SkeetOnQQ bets $35
RecessRampage calls $35
Mano Nera folds

With two players calling my reraise, I got scared so I checked... Mano Nera must have had AK?

*** TURN *** [6s 5h Jd] [9d]
RecessRampage checks
SkeetOnQQ checks

*** RIVER *** [6s 5h Jd 9d] [5c]
RecessRampage checks
SkeetOnQQ bets $100
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage ???

See, here's where I got confused. But then this board is kinda terrible because now, there are so many hands that would beat me and so few hands that I beat. I mean he smooth called a reraise so he must have a decent hand. But then I thought QQ-AA would have repopped since those are not hands you want to see a 3 way flop with. Middle pocket pairs like 55, 66, 99 all hit the sets but then I thought there's now way a hand like that would check the turn especially after I called the flop bet. Then he fires out a bet on the river? This made no sense. If he had a hand like AJ, he would certainly check on a board like this against a reraiser since the only hand that would realistically call him is a hand that beats his. So, in this instance, I thought it was more often a bluff, thought maybe he has AK (and didn't want to jam preflop into two guys, one of which who smooth called a reraise) so I called.

He flipped over J8 sooted and so I took this pot.

Weird weird spot...

Tricky Spots

Here are a few interesting spots that I got into last night and wanted to know what you would do if you were me. Preferably, include why you would call, raise, or fold and the hand ranges that you think the villain could have that would lead you to the action you would take.

Full Ring - 2-4NL, relevant stacks
Villain ($486.90)
Hero ($433)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ah Kh]
2 folds
Hero raises to $14
1 fold
Villain calls $14 from CO
Button and both blinds fold

*** FLOP *** [Kc 5c 5d]
Hero bets $24
Villain calls $24

*** TURN *** [Kc 5c 5d] [Th]
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $65
Villain raises to $130
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero ???

Again, WWYD?

Another full ring table 2-4NL (7 players in hand)
Relevant stacks:

Villain ($253.40) <--- BB
Hero ($416)

One additional info is that villain calls A LOT of hands preflop. I don't have the stats with me but his VP$IP was like 35-40%.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Jc Tc]
Hero raises to $14
5 folds
Villain calls $10

*** FLOP *** [7s Qs Jh]
Villain checks
Hero bets $22
Villain calls $22

*** TURN *** [7s Qs Jh] [Qd]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $44
Hero calls $44

*** RIVER *** [7s Qs Jh Qd] [Kc]
Villain bets $162
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero ???

Again, WWYD? Would you have done something different on the turn?

There was another hand that I thought I saved on here that apparently didn't so that's all for today...

Floating 101

Quick nonpoker observation - Usain Bolt is a freakin machine.

For those of you that don't know, this guy crushed the 100m dash in the Olympics, cruising the last 20-30m (that's a fifth to the third of a race!!) with arms wide open as if to say "GET YOUR POPCORN READY!" Some people talked about how he should have ran through the race to really make the world record untouchable. The way I see it, he's running against 8 other allegedly fastest guys on earth. If he can crush them that bad, hell, I wouldn't say shit if he turned around and ran backwards the last 20 meters. Taunt away. I love showmanship. Is that even a word? I don't know. Whatever. And then I watched him destroy the 200m last night. Oh my god. Last night, the 8 others on that field must have felt what it feels like to get up to the tee earlier in the year when Tiger was crushing it. They're fighting for second cuz the top player is so dominant. Just sickening.

Alright... back to poker...

So, today, I wanted to talk about floating. In the past, and maybe still at 1-2NL and below, if you were in position, one of the moves you could make was to float the flop cbet with the intention of taking it away on the turn. For a while, the cbet was like the norm and people were pretty much cbetting any flop. So, one of the things that worked if you were in position is that you can call one bet on the flop to see if the guy actually has a hand. Unless he can double barrell, you can take the pot away on the turn when he checks to you. Now, I'm assuming everyone knows what floating means. Basically, floating is cold calling a bet, usually without really a draw, with the intent of taking the pot away on the turn. Now of course, if you are randomly doing it, it's probably more prone to becoming a leak rather than a move. The key here is to be able to read your opponent as well as understand the texture of the board. For example, let's say a fairly tight MP raises and you call from the CO with a suited connector... let's say, 67s. The flop comes AK9 rainbow. If he cbets, you calling here is certainly called floating but probably not a good idea. I think it's more effective when the texture of the board is unlikely that it hit your opponent. And then the key would be to try to see what hand you can convince your opponent that you have.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7734621116: Table Trails End (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:05:49 ET - 2008/08/21

5 handed

Seat 2: Hero ($400) <--- BB
Seat 6: Villain ($400) <--- SB

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [2s 2c]
3 folds
Villain raises to $16
Hero calls $12

I debated 3 betting here and I think that's fine too. But, the villain is an aggro so I decided that he's more likely to 4 bet here if he had any two face which I obv wouldn't be able to call. Plus, I felt that if I hit a set, I could get paid a fair amount. But I could really go either way. Just one example of a hand where I call instead of 3 betting.

*** FLOP *** [5s Ad Ah]
Villain bets $20
Hero calls $20

Now, this is a standard cbet by the villain. But with the board being what it is, it's very unlikely that the villain hit his hand. Of course, he could have and that's the danger of floating. Now, another thought might be that it's very likely that I have a better hand here than the villain so why not raise? I gave that some thought as well. But, this villain was an aggro but he wasn't completely clueless. So, at this point, regardless of the cards, I decided that I'm gonna play this hand like I have the A. And here, if I had the A, this is how I would play it. So I chose to smooth call here with intent of taking the pot away on the turn. Here, my cards are 22 but really, that's insignificant. It's all about the texture of the board.

*** TURN *** [5s Ad Ah] [4c]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $56
Hero raises to $156
Villain folds
Uncalled bet of $100 returned to Hero
Hero wins the pot ($181)

The turn card was about as good as I can ask for. Another low card that's unlikely to hit the opponent. Villain was bold enough to fire out another bet, knowing full well that I could be floating the flop with two face cards but without the A or a high pocket pair, he cannot call this raise especially the way it's been played. The only thing I'm noticing now is that my raise size could have been smaller. Here, I make a move to take it away but keep in mind that if the villain shoves, I can't call here. And if he doesn't have the A, he will fold even if I bet like $125. In other words, if smaller bet sizes would accomplish the same goal with the same percentage of risk, making the bet size smaller would obviously save you some money in the long run. Bet sizing is so key in the long term winnings of a player.

Either case, it worked out here. In a tough 6 max game where the players are constant raising, betting, and 3 betting, you're gonna have to really learn to read the texture of the board and make plays at times to keep you afloat. The best players know how to do this which is why if you look up some of the very strong regulars, they will be showing ridiculous BB/100 numbers. That's generally a result of knowing when to turn up the heat and playing their opponents' cards instead of their own.

River decision hand and random blog pimpage

Before I get started, a quick nonpoker blog pimpage for those of you who may have nothing else to do... or for those that may have more time now that yours truly lost his gchat capability to work. I will say... as much as I hate losing gchat at work, that's the best move they made... My productivity has increased dramatically as a result. Well, anyways... Here are two nonpoker blogs, both of which were started by my friends. This guy seems to have been posting for a while but I just found out.

Crumbs of knowledge - This is one of my buddies that I went to Montreal with. He has a better recap than I can ever put together.

Here's one that my friend just started yesterday.

Another waste of time - If stuff like 30 something year old woman picking her nose and eating what comes out of it makes you laugh, his humor should be right up your alley. I think he's gonna post about his fantasy football debacle (which he already did) and the sports teams he likes (Bears and Cubs) so go check it out and give him some love... after all, he thinks bloggin is a waste of time.

Alright... done with the pimping. Now on to regular programming:

First is a hand where I played it poorly but the cards and a decent read on the river saved me:

Full Tilt Poker Game #7721058389: Table Rose Canyon - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:10:47 ET - 2008/08/19

8 handed - effective stacks:
Villain in CO - ($418)
Hero on the button ($400)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Js Jc]
4 folds
Villain raises to $14
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $14
both blinds fold

Here, I could go either way. More often than not, I would 3 bet with JJ but this just happens to be a hand where I didn't.

*** FLOP *** [3c 9c Td] (Pot $34)

Villain bets $18
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to $56
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain raises to $112
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $56

This hand got weird in a hurry. I see a ten high flop which I figured was good for my hand. Then this guy puts out a weird small bet for about half the pot. Since the board was pretty draw heavy, I figured I'd just put in a raise and get Ax type of hands to fold. The only thought that I had (which is why timer kicked in) was that I did wonder if I raise, if I'm opening myself up for another big raise where I would be forced to let my JJ go... and his range of doing that could be huge if he has clubs in his hands. Nonetheless, I put in a raise and as I worried, villain puts in another raise... except this one is a minraise. Now, I'm totally confused. I did wonder if I was up against a set. And this is where I think I make a bad play. I suspected a set... and yet I call.

*** TURN *** [3c 9c Td] [Ac] (Pot $258)
Villain checks
Hero checks

I didn't know what to make of that card. I felt like maybe I can bet here but I chickened out. Part of the reason I chickened out was because I actually had the Jc. Now that he checked, I wasn't sure if I were completely beat. Maybe he had a set and he hated the club. Or maybe he was checking to checkraise with his clubs. I just decided that it was worth seeing one more card since I have position here.

*** RIVER *** [3c 9c Td Ac] [4c] (Pot $258)
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $136
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero calls $136

On the river, this was my thought process. The 4th club comes on the river. Then villain bets out $136. A good bet size for a call me bet. Big enough that it should get most hands out without the flush. Small enough that it looks like a sucker bet. The problem is, his sequence in the hand didn't make sense. On the flop, remember, I sensed that I was up against a set (yes, I know, that still doesn't explain the call on the flop). On the turn, he checks when the flush draw completes. Of course, he could have been waiting to check raise but it just didn't make sense. So, with my Jc, the two cards that would beat me here would be Kc and Qc. So, now, I had to think if the villain could have either one of these cards. And this is what went through my head. If he has a Qc, he would not bet here. He would be happy to show down and maybe call a bet from me but there's no way he's betting out here with the second nuts because then he gets all the worse hands to fold and only the Kc would call that bet. So, I ruled that out. Then now, there's only one card that beats me. Kc. Question is, does he have it? Of course, he could. But instead of putting him on one hand, I decided to give it a range of what would make him bet out. He either has Kc or he is now trying to buy this pot. Since I KNOW that he doesn't have Qc, I, for all intensive purposes, basically have the second nuts with Jc. On this board, with this pot size, he would be betting a fair range of hands where he feels that he could get hands like two pair and sets to fold. AK would be a possibility, KQ (with no Kc) might also be possible or KK or QQ with no club would also be possible. So, in the end, based on the flop and turn action, I actually narrowed it down to he either has KK with a Kc, or QQ with no club. His flop reraise was small so it could be a set too. But that was the range I eventually narrowed it down to. I thought he probably won't bet with trips since he does have showdown value but you never know with these guys so I couldn't totally exclude that possibility.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain shows [Qd Qh] a pair of Queens
Hero shows [Js Jc] a flush, Ace high
Hero wins the pot ($527) with a flush, Ace high

I think villain's main mistake was the small reraise on the flop. If he puts in a solid reraise there, I can't continue with JJ. It was still a bad call by me, given my instincts that it could be a set but on such a draw heavy board, there's no way I would want to entice anyone to stick around.

Here's an interesting hand where I wish I was good enough to fold the turn to the initial bet...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7721139300: Table Mountain Home - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:16:47 ET - 2008/08/19
Seat 1: Hero ($414.70)
Seat 2: ($400)
Seat 3: ($321.30)
Seat 4: Villain1 ($286.90)
Seat 5: Villain2 ($400)
Seat 6: ($411.50)
Seat 7: SB ($527)
Seat 8: BB ($855.90)
Seat 9: Villain3 ($177.30)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ac Kc]
Villain3 calls $4
Hero raises to $18
2 folds
Villain1 calls $18
Villain2 calls $18
Button folds
SB folds
BB folds
Villain3 calls $14

*** FLOP *** [9d Qs 5c] (Pot $78)
Villain3 checks
Hero checks
Villain1 checks
Villain2 checks

Terrible flop. I'm really done with this hand. I'm just hoping someone bets so I can fold... instead it checks around.

*** TURN *** [9d Qs 5c] [Ks] (Pot $78)
Villain3 bets $28
Hero has 15 seconds left to act (I hate that turn card!)
Hero calls $28
Villain1 has 15 seconds left to act
Villain1 has requested TIME
Villain1 raises to $136 <--- thank you!
Villain2 folds
Villain3 raises to $159.30, and is all in
Hero folds
Villain1 calls $23.30

Really doesn't matter what Villain3 did here, I was gonna fold anyways to that raise since this board is terrible for AK. The only thing I hate about the turn card was that I caught a piece AND the guy bets out such a small amount in comparison to the pot that I couldn't find the fold button... That's probably a leak...

Villain3 shows [5d 5h]
Villain1 shows [Td Jc]

*** RIVER *** [9d Qs 5c Ks] [3h]
Villain3 shows three of a kind, Fives
Villain1 shows a straight, King high
Villain1 wins the pot ($421.60) with a straight, King high

That's all for today. Hopefully, I'll have more hands to post soon.

Blogger cash game

Last night, we had the blogger 1-2NL deep stack cash game which was a blast. For some unknown reason, I thought it was a prerequisite to sign up for the Mookie so I ended up with 6 tables (I was 4 tabling 2-4nl and couldn't close them down because they were extremely juicy, then mookie popped up, then the blogger cash game...). And believe me... my 15" monitor can't handle 6 tables... I have 4 of them set so they fit perfectly next to each other... the other two were basically hidden and I was counting on the thing to start flashing, letting me know it was my turn. Here are some of the hands that I played from the blogger cash. I would delete the chat to make it easier to follow but some of the chats are priceless...

This was like the 3rd or 4th hand in... I get dealt a pretty good hand...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253067894: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:17:39 ET - 2008/07/16
Maniac57 (Observer): multi-account this @!%%!
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($412.80)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($409.85)
Seat 3: cmitch ($412.15)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($390.75)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($447)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($400)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($390)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($397)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($398)
cmitch: Don - no AA vs KK hands today
RecessRampage: and f*cked up pinky
kurokitty has 5 seconds left to act
kurokitty posts the small blind of $1
smizmiatch posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #8

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [As Kd]
MiamiDon folds
cmitch folds
Bone_Daddy84: ugly pinky
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 folds
MiamiDon: especially if it's weak
Mike_Maloney folds
Maniac57 (Observer): no girl will want you even more now
Subzero_666: who is Pinky?
RecessRampage raises to $7 <--- from CO
twoblackaces folds
cmitch: or CK
MiamiDon: and no set under sets for you mitch
kurokitty has 15 seconds left to act
cmitch: :)
kurokitty raises to $23 <--- how dare he... asian cuttin asian
RecessRampage: me of course
smizmiatch has 15 seconds left to act
smizmiatch raises to $55 <--- he knows that kuro knows that my range is wider from the CO/button
Subzero_666: oc!
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage raises to $165 <--- I mean... I got the nuts right???
Subzero_666: action!!!!!!
cmitch: rutrow
kurokitty has 15 seconds left to act
Mike_Maloney: buncha monkeys
PirateLawyer (Observer): whee
kurokitty folds <--- good girl!
smizmiatch adds $42.20
smizmiatch folds <--- good girl!
Uncalled bet of $110 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage mucks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($133)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $133 | Rake $0
Seat 1: smizmiatch (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: MiamiDon didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: cmitch didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: RecessRampage collected ($133), mucked
Seat 8: twoblackaces (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: kurokitty (small blind) folded before the Flop

This table was a lot of fun because of all the chatter too.

Bone_Daddy84: nah, i'm weak tight
Bone_Daddy84: just like everyone here
RecessRampage: weak tight? he's sitting to my right

Who's to my right? Seat 6 obviously...

I mean, see below... need I say more?

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253547340: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:52:48 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($413.70)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($336.90)
Seat 3: cmitch ($529.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($523.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($400)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($506)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($497)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($380.45)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($797.90)
RecessRampage: weak
cmitch posts the small blind of $1
Bone_Daddy84 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [9c 7c]
Subzero_666 has 15 seconds left to act
Subzero_666 folds
Mike_Maloney raises to $7 <--- UTG+1
RecessRampage raises to $24 <--- easy reraise. They're freakin soooooooted!!
twoblackaces folds
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch folds
MiamiDon folds
cmitch folds
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Mike_Maloney has 15 seconds left to act
Mike_Maloney folds
Uncalled bet of $17 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage mucks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($17)

Then I got into this fun pot with Don.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253348905: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:38:10 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($400)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($390.85)
Seat 3: cmitch ($532.20)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($417.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($374.85)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($514)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($478.60)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($394)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($810.90)
Bone_Daddy84 posts the small blind of $1
Subzero_666 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ac Jd]
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage raises to $7
cmitch: :)
twoblackaces folds
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch folds
MiamiDon calls $7
cmitch folds
RecessRampage: one of my tables is about to break
Bone_Daddy84: i read this guys blog saying check raise oop was a good move <--- interesting...
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 folds

*** FLOP *** [Td 8c Kd]
RecessRampage: mixed feelings...
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $14 <--- standard cbet with gutterball
MiamiDon calls $14

*** TURN *** [Td 8c Kd] [2d]
RecessRampage checks
MiamiDon bets $26.95
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage raises to $96 <--- what was that about CR OOP???
Bone_Daddy84: waffles i'm done at 11
MiamiDon has 15 seconds left to act
Maniac57 (Observer): k
MiamiDon folds
Uncalled bet of $69.05 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage mucks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($95.90)

I wish I could say something cool like I had a read on Don and made a play blah blah blah but in reality, I was feeling frisky, my thought was that it would be rare for Don to peel one more card with just a flush draw... figured it might be more like middle pair or a weaker king... like KJ, JT, T9... I figured I could rep a flush and if he calls, I obv give up on the river.

But I couldn't bully the whole table since these guys know that I like to get frisky (read: spewy)...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253479535: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:47:49 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($405.45)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($339.90)
Seat 3: cmitch ($536.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($484.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($374.85)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($506)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($506.45)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($366)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($797.90)
RecessRampage posts the small blind of $1
twoblackaces posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Td Qd]
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch folds
MiamiDon folds
cmitch has 15 seconds left to act
cmitch folds
Bone_Daddy84 raises to $7
Subzero_666 calls $7
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage raises to $30 <--- standard squeeze
twoblackaces folds
Bone_Daddy84 raises to $95 <--- he knows it's a standard squeeze
Subzero_666 folds
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME

I honestly considered shoving here... I mean I know that BD knows that I would have a wide range to be squeezing there... but then my skirt got in the way...

RecessRampage folds
Uncalled bet of $65 returned to Bone_Daddy84
Bone_Daddy84 shows [4h 4c] a pair of Fours
Bone_Daddy84 wins the pot ($69)

But then again, talk about frisky...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253535242: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:51:55 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($420.70)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($337.90)
Seat 3: cmitch ($536.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($523.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($326.85)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($506)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($476.45)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($387.45)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($797.90)
MiamiDon posts the small blind of $1
cmitch posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ks Js]
cmitch: sorry mike
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 folds
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage raises to $7
twoblackaces calls $7
Mike_Maloney: As soon as that 7 hit, I knew it was all over
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch calls $7
cmitch: lol
MiamiDon folds
cmitch has 15 seconds left to act
cmitch calls $5

Cmitch, TBA, and Gnome? Bunch of ballahs = bunch of rag cards probably

*** FLOP *** [Qs Qd Ac]
cmitch checks
RecessRampage bets $22
twoblackaces folds
smizmiatch folds
cmitch folds
Uncalled bet of $22 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage mucks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($27.55)

EASY MONEY!!!

I did get pwned here by Gnome though...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253587332: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:55:43 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($413.70)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($336.90)
Seat 3: cmitch ($528.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($519.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($388)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($496)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($513.20)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($389.55)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($797.90)
RecessRampage posts the small blind of $1
twoblackaces posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ts Td]
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch raises to $7
MiamiDon folds
cmitch folds
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 folds
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage calls $6
twoblackaces folds
*** FLOP *** [2s Ad 2d]
RecessRampage checks
smizmiatch checks
*** TURN *** [2s Ad 2d] [5d]
RecessRampage checks
smizmiatch bets $12
RecessRampage folds
Uncalled bet of $12 returned to smizmiatch
smizmiatch shows [4c 6c] a pair of Twos
smizmiatch wins the pot ($15.20)

I played this about as weak as possible... not sure what I had in mind... Hey, I never said I was perfect.

I got some back the very next hand though against TBA.

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253598922: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:56:34 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($421.90)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($336.90)
Seat 3: cmitch ($528.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($519.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($388)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($496)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($506.20)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($387.55)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($797.90)
twoblackaces posts the small blind of $1
kurokitty posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Qh Kh]
smizmiatch folds
MiamiDon folds
RecessRampage: I see
cmitch folds
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 folds
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage raises to $7 <--- button
twoblackaces calls $6
kurokitty folds

*** FLOP *** [6s Qd Jd]
twoblackaces checks
RecessRampage bets $13
twoblackaces calls $13

*** TURN *** [6s Qd Jd] [9c]
twoblackaces checks
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage checks

I didn't care for the call on the flop. I thought about betting here in case he was on a flush draw but if he has a Q, there aren't too many hands I can beat. Plus, if I bet here and I get checkraised, it would make for an awkward spot so I decided to check behind. Since I had position, I figured controlling pot size was better even if that meant I gave up a free card... now that I write this out, it seems like a very flawed thought process... but I'm just telling you what I had in mind at the time... I should get points for honesty.

*** RIVER *** [6s Qd Jd 9c] [5s]
twoblackaces checks
RecessRampage bets $30
twoblackaces calls $30

Once it's checked to me, I'm fairly comfortable I have the best hand. In case he had a piece of the board, I felt compelled to throw out a value bet. He might think I am betting a missed flush draw, esp after the turn check on a draw heavy board.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
RecessRampage shows [Qh Kh] a pair of Queens
twoblackaces mucks [Th Js] - a pair of Jacks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($99) with a pair of Queens

And then I think this was the last interesting hand that occurred. Props to Cmitch for folding the river...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7253677391: Table Ryan (deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:02:25 ET - 2008/07/16
Seat 1: smizmiatch ($401.90)
Seat 2: MiamiDon ($348.50), is sitting out
Seat 3: cmitch ($524.55)
Seat 4: Bone_Daddy84 ($557.95)
Seat 5: Subzero_666 ($400)
Seat 6: Mike_Maloney ($496)
Seat 7: RecessRampage ($555.20)
Seat 8: twoblackaces ($400)
Seat 9: kurokitty ($794.90)
Subzero_666 posts the small blind of $1
Mike_Maloney posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #4

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [4s 4d]
RecessRampage raises to $7
Bone_Daddy84: brue you there?
twoblackaces folds
kurokitty folds
smizmiatch folds
cmitch raises to $24 <--- how dare he??? DYKWTFIA????
Bone_Daddy84 folds
Subzero_666 adds $1
Subzero_666 folds
Mike_Maloney folds
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage calls $17

*** FLOP *** [Jc 4h 6s] <--- woot!
RecessRampage checks
Bone_Daddy84: someone ping brue, gotta run at end of orbit
cmitch checks <--- dirty

*** TURN *** [Jc 4h 6s] [Qd]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $35
cmitch raises to $94
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage calls $59

This was a very close one. On one hand, I thought about reraising. Problem was, if I did, I felt like I would be majorly announcing that I have a monster. Since cmitch and I discuss a lot of hands, thought processes, etc, I just felt like if I'm coming over the top with a raise, he knows I have to have something real solid that would clearly beat one pair.

*** RIVER *** [Jc 4h 6s Qd] [Jd]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage bets $160
cmitch has 15 seconds left to act
cmitch has requested TIME
cmitch: show?
cmitch folds
Uncalled bet of $160 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage shows [4s 4d] a full house, Fours full of Jacks
RecessRampage wins the pot ($236)

Incredible fold by cmitch, IMO. Normally, I wouldn't say that. But here, based on the betting sequence, there's no way he puts me on a boat. When I bet out on the river like that, I'm repping the J really hard. But I wanted to because I felt that cmitch would sniff that out and know that I am looking like I'm repping a J. It's quite possible that I have a hand like KT even though I wouldn't call a preflop reraise with KT. So, there were a lot of things in the hand that didn't make sense based on the sequence that cmitch probably felt it was either I had air or monster. Again, by me betting out trying to rep the J, I thought that would get cmitch to call thinking it's weird that I would rep a J like that. Damn, I thought I was gonna get paid...

So all in all, it was a lot of fun... of course, I also thought chislodc (BRACKCHIPS) who used to torment me at 2-4NL FR games would come and join... but then his blog partner (BRUECHIPS) told us where he was...

RecessRampage: where's chislodc
Fuel55 (Observer): chis is underground
mdemontecristo: he's sitting here at my place
RecessRampage: is this too low stakes for him?
Fuel55 (Observer): giving u a hand job?
mdemontecristo: lol
RecessRampage: lol
RecessRampage: fuel loves him some ghey jokes
mdemontecristo: no he is licking my balls

Yep, we're a classy bunch! It was a lot of fun and mucho thanks to Gnome for setting it up.

Back to regular programming (ie poker content) and quick clarification

Quick clarification in regards to my previous post about the mortgage rant. I am in no way defending the idiot mortgage companies that did what they did in dishing out loans that every reasonable person could have seen as a bad idea. Nor does that mean that I am calling any of the mortgage brokers or people who work for the mortgage companies idiots either (so Jamyhawk, if you are reading this, please relax). Everyone to an extent were blinded by the crazy growth at the time. The loan officers were generally pushing loans because, well, that's how they make money. The loan companies probably offered incentives where if you sold/closed x amount of loans, you get paid x amount extra. So, they're just doing their jobs. I have no pity for the executives of the companies though that made those decisions who are now going under because like some of you pointed out, you HAD TO KNOW that that was coming. But it didn't matter. It was close now and worry about it later mentality and they're paying the price for it. The rant earlier was based on the article I read and it was not trying to point the blame on any one party because pretty much everyone is in this. But like Willwonka said, where's the reward for people who are being prudent and careful and saving (ie, losing tons of money in the stock market)? I mean... I don't even like to look at my portfolio right now cuz it's so depressing... and I'm well diversified too. Still doesn't help when everything is going down (one or two sectors going up like energy and emerging markets are not offsetting the losses I'm experiencing in other industries).

Ok, now on to poker.

Last night, I played the Mookie for the first time since the BBT3. Tuning into BDR where everyone there were slooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly getting drunk (drinking soco at a snail's pace... I mean come on) made me really wish I was down in Okie Vegas. :) (I jest, of course. After listening to Buddy rap on the karaoke machine, I had to reluctantly go to bed - and thanks for the call IT!) Unfortunately, it was not to be but it sounded like they were having a blast. I'm expecting some dial-a-shots tonight. I'll come through this time.

As for the Mookie itself, I didn't do too well. This was my pretty much bust out hand that I am still kicking myself for not folding because it was such an obvious hand...

Full Tilt Poker Game #7158775480: The Mookie (53696736), Table 1 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:29:03 ET - 2008/07/10
Seat 1: Obie315 (43,903)
Seat 2: HighOnPoker (16,420)
Seat 3: muhctim (9,635)
Seat 4: DrewFours (15,743)
Seat 5: Numbette (6,750)
Seat 6: bdidde (32,780)
Seat 7: PinkyStinky (18,374)
Seat 8: RecessRampage (18,395)
Obie315 antes 75
HighOnPoker antes 75
muhctim antes 75
DrewFours antes 75
Numbette antes 75
bdidde antes 75
PinkyStinky antes 75
RecessRampage antes 75
muhctim posts the small blind of 300
DrewFours posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ac As]
Numbette folds
bdidde folds
PinkyStinky folds
RecessRampage raises to 1,800
Obie315 folds
HighOnPoker calls 1,800
muhctim folds
DrewFours calls 1,200

*** FLOP *** [7d 5c 6s]
DrewFours checks
RecessRampage bets 4,500
HighOnPoker calls 4,500
DrewFours folds

This board sucks for AA. When Jordan called, I knew he had a pretty big hand or a big draw. And I'm not trying to sound cocky about it. Not many hands would smooth call here in this situation so his hands were fairly limited. My initial thought was he either has a set, possibly a straight/two pair, or 88 for an overpair and an OESD. But I have to think with 88, he would raise here. The smooth call scared the shit out of me... nonetheless, Jordan gets paid off... he's lucky I'm such a donk.

*** TURN *** [7d 5c 6s] [2s]
RecessRampage checks
HighOnPoker has 15 seconds left to act
HighOnPoker bets 6,600
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
HighOnPoker: you got a lotta time in that time bank
RecessRampage: I'm not good enough to fold this <--- but my mouse was hovering over "fold"
HighOnPoker: then dont
PirateLawyer (Observer): shoooooove?
RecessRampage: ah hell
RecessRampage raises to 12,020, and is all in
HighOnPoker calls 3,445, and is all in
RecessRampage shows [Ac As]
HighOnPoker shows [5h 5d]
Uncalled bet of 1,975 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage: nh

This is gonna sound lame but PL making the comment there actually made me think, ah hell. I hate placing the blame there but I kinda wish I had the observer chat off because I am fairly certain I was so close to folding and then when he said shove, I was like, yeah, what the hell, it's only the mookie. Still, it pisses me off that I know I'm good enough to make the laydown and I didn't (and this part is DEFINITELY NOT ON PL). Well, which means I'm NOT good enough to make the laydown. I fuckin suck. Obviously.

*** RIVER *** [7d 5c 6s 2s] [8h]
RecessRampage shows a pair of Aces
HighOnPoker shows three of a kind, Fives
HighOnPoker wins the pot (35,390) with three of a kind, Fives
RecessRampage: so obv <--- well said

I know a lot of MTTers might say that's just a cooler but I disagree. I sniffed it out but I wasn't good enough to listen to my instincts. I mean I am nit after all. See below:

Full Tilt Poker Game : Table Rosy (deep 6) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:42:41 ET - 2008/07/09
Seat 1: Rocker855 ($237.30), is sitting out
Seat 2: sicklol ($1,507)
Seat 3: SaxManMike ($400)
Seat 4: OhYesTGPFA ($1,253)
Seat 5: RecessRampage ($975.10) <--- SB
Seat 6: passtheganja ($1,098.90) <--- BB

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Jh As]
sicklol folds
SaxManMike folds
OhYesTGPFA folds
RecessRampage raises to $12
passtheganja has 15 seconds left to act
passtheganja has requested TIME
passtheganja raises to $36.60
RecessRampage calls $24.60

In a deep stack game, I really don't like to 4 bet with a marginal hand like AJ even in a blind v blind battle. Maybe I should. I don't know. Thoughts?

*** FLOP *** [Js 9s 4d]
RecessRampage checks
passtheganja has 15 seconds left to act
passtheganja bets $38.90
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage raises to $155
passtheganja has 15 seconds left to act
passtheganja has requested TIME
passtheganja calls $116.10

I was quite surprised with this call. I thought for sure the hand would end right here.

*** TURN *** [Js 9s 4d] [8s]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage checks
passtheganja has 15 seconds left to act
passtheganja has requested TIME
passtheganja bets $127.50
RecessRampage calls $127.50

I didn't know what to make of this bet but I started getting a bad feeling about it. I have top pair and a nut flush draw but being so deep, I am not sure this is an area that I want to really ship it in. And if you thought, you could check raise again, it's the same as shoving since I'll essentially be committing myself.

*** RIVER *** [Js 9s 4d 8s] [Jc] <--- talk about a set up card
RecessRampage checks
passtheganja has 15 seconds left to act
passtheganja has requested TIME
passtheganja bets $779.80, and is all in
RecessRampage folds
Uncalled bet of $779.80 returned to passtheganja
passtheganja mucks
passtheganja wins the pot ($635.20)

I am fairly certain this is a good fold. There's not a single hand where I can think of where this guy ships it in on the river that I have beat. I think a lot of people will call here and the guy will show a boat and they'll call it a set up or something but I disagree. In a deep stack game, I think pot control is important. If the villain is doing that with a lesser J, that's extremely spewy in my opinion and he just didn't seem like the type. This was an air or monster situation and the overbet made me feel like it was a OBFV instead of a bluff. Anyone see this differently (I'm sure there are plenty)?

Thoughts?

Flipping a coin... and poker wins!

I was torn between going nonpoker content route vs discussion of hand histories... ultimately, since this is a poker blog, the hand history discussion won out. So, for all you degenerates out there, enjoy. For all you nondegenerates, have a nice 4th (or for some of you, I'll see you tomorrow)!

Without further ado, here we go:

1) "No point in betting the river since a worse hand will fold and only a better hand will call you."

That's such a cliche isn't it? So many people tend to lose value on the river because they are afraid to fire out that last bet without a monster. But sometimes, you have to try to read your opponent even if he's not the one putting you to the decision so you can maximize your value there.

FTP 6max 4 handed
Seat 1: Villain ($648.50)
Seat 2: ($432.40), is sitting out
Seat 3: SB ($400)
Seat 4: ($1,018.90), is sitting out
Seat 5: BB ($96)
Seat 6: Hero ($439.80)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qd As]
Hero raises to $14
Villain calls $14
Both blinds fold

*** FLOP *** [Kh Ac 2h]
Hero bets $23
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain calls $23

The flop is obviously a very good one considering AQ is a very good hand 4 handed and I just hit my top pair. Villain could be calling here with a wide range, including any A, any K, possibly middle pocket pair, or a flush draw. Since it's 4 handed, he would give me less credit for a hand here because I would obviously be raising and cbetting with a wide range.

*** TURN *** [Kh Ac 2h] [6d]
Hero bets $65
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain calls $65

I bet $65 into a pot that has about $75. This call usually means that he doesn't have a flush draw since the villain did not seem like the type to chase with poor odds. As such, I figured that at this point, he either has a A or a K.

*** RIVER *** [Kh Ac 2h 6d] [9s]
Hero bets $145
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain has requested TIME
Villain calls $145

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero shows [Qd As] a pair of Aces
Villain mucks [Ah Td] - a pair of Aces
Hero wins the pot ($498) with a pair of Aces

Villain really took his time to call the river bet. He had to know/feel like he was beat but 4 handed, it was really tough for him to fold his A. This was an instance where I wanted to make sure I got value out of my hand. I could have easily checked the river, thinking only a better hand would call me but in this case, I knew that that wouldn't be true. I thought through the sequence, was convinced he had an ace (so be it if he had A9) and so I fired out another bet. Now some of you might say, what would you do if he shoves here? I would probably fold, based on the read I had on this player. The chances of him having air here would be very slim if he shoves over my bet on the river. Of course, if he does, some of you might say that I shoulda just checked but you really need to look at the sequence of the hand and really think through before defaulting to checking on the river. You could be missing a lot of value there. I did consider an OBFV on the turn but I wasn't exactly sure what he had at that point so I didn't want to overbet and kill the hand. It is possible that I would have gotten called but I'd like to think that the villain is not THAT stupid to stack off with top pair ten kicker, even 4 handed, in a cash game.

2) Seemingly thin calls on the river

Here's another hand that illustrates some thought on the river:

FTP 6 max 2-4NL
Seat 1: Villain ($398.40)
Seat 2: SB ($90)
Seat 3: BB ($775.90)
Seat 4: ($392.10)
Seat 5: ($522.90)
Seat 6: Hero ($577)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Td 8d]
2 folds
Hero raises to $14
Villain calls $14
Both blinds fold

*** FLOP *** [5s 6d 8c]
Hero bets $23
Villain calls $23

This is a pretty good flop for me, obv since I hit top pair. I obv hate that he called...

*** TURN *** [5s 6d 8c] [Ks]
Hero bets $55
Villain calls $55

I thought about checking here but because the flop is so draw heavy, it's quite possible that he was just drawing so I wanted to fire out another bullet to see what he does. Strangely, the villain calls again so I'm starting to wonder if he also has an 8 (like A8 or something). I figured this pot will be going to him at this point.

*** RIVER *** [5s 6d 8c Ks] [Kc]
Hero checks
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $120
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME

This is where it gets interesting. The river is another king and I never thought he had a king to begin with. He smooth calls two streets and I felt that if he had a set, he would have raised on the turn after I fire out my second bullet, hence indicating a pretty strong holding. It just didn't make sense to me that he fires out a bet here. I was worried about A8 but if he had that, wouldn't he just check and be happy with a showdown? I mean value betting A8 here seems like a very very thin line. Also, the no raise on the flop seemed kinda weird. Of course, he could have had an overpair like 99 or TT (surely JJ+ woulda reraised me preflop) but even those hands may not value bet river. All in all, it seemed very fishy and the bet seems more like a bluff with a busted draw than a value bet. So, having said all that...

Hero calls $120

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain shows [Qh 7h] a pair of Kings
Hero shows [Td 8d] two pair, Kings and Eights
Hero wins the pot ($427) with two pair, Kings and Eights

Q7... I mean... if you're gonna play shit like that, be aggressive with it... That was just a poor play by the villain. (granted... he was ahead preflop)

Have a nice 4th everyone!

Obligatory poker post

Since this is a poker blog first and everything else second, I felt compelled to write something poker related since a lot of my posts recently have nothing to do with poker. Being that my trip to Montreal is coming up in a few days, I imagine there would be less poker material to write about. I hate it when social life comes in the way of poker... ah hell, what am I talking about. I'm having a freakin blast.

Well, last night, I played some poker. Not much. Just 4 tabled for about two hours I think... I was only going to play for an hour but then I was stuck a buy in and I knew I was playing well so I didn't want to stop. The only reason I was stuck a buy in was because we got it all in post flop... I had 99, villain had AA... flop was A-9-x. I eventually made it all back though and ended the night positive.

However, there was a hand that I don't have the HH for right now but it was a hand that I could have gone broke in but decided to cut my losses on the turn. The basic idea of the hand was that there was an EP limper, I raise with KK, EP limper calls, and we see a flop. On the flop, it was an uncoordinated, all low/mid flop and he checks to me, I bet about 85% of pot and I get mincheckraised. I took this as a sign of strength. After much deliberation, I called. Now I believe the flop was like 7 high or 8 high. On the turn, it was a J and he bets out about half his remaining stack. At that point, the pot was approximately $250ish. I had about $340 remaining. If I call his turn bet, I am obviously committed to calling the river bet so I felt that I was making a decision for my entire stack on the turn. I thought long and hard and eventually found the fold button. Now I don't know if that was a good fold or a bad fold. But it also made me think whether the flop call was a good one or not. And it reminded me of something about big pocket pairs preflop which doesn't directly tie to this HH but an interesting concept nonetheless.

Few months ago, when I was in Vegas, I played some with Weakplayer and Don. At one point, Weak comes and tells us about a hand he was involved in where he had KK, the flop was all low (like 7 high maybe) and he folded to a jam. At that point, Don pointed out that if he was gonna do that, he shoulda mucked KK preflop unless he was set mining. What does he mean? Well, this is how the hand played out preflop.

There was an EP limper, Weak raises, another guy calls, and the EP limper reraises a pretty big amount. At that point, Weak thought it might be aces but he wasn't sure so he called and so did the last guy. They saw an all low flop, EP limp reraiser jammed, Weak mucked his KK, and the last guy called. Turns out EP limp reraiser had QQ and the other guy had JJ. But we're not trying to judge based on the results. The interesting part to me was Don's comment.

In other words, if you are going to fold your kings on an all low flop, without set mining odds, why do you even need to call preflop? (and in this instance, I don't think weak had the set mining odds after the reraise) In other words, you need to make the judgment preflop about what to do if the flop is ______. You obviously can't totally plan ahead because you don't know what's coming. But you do need to run a few scenarios. In the hand above, it is definitely worth considering a fold preflop if you know that you're gonna fold to a flop jam on an all low board. The reason is that after showing that much strength (limp, then reraise), there's no way the guy is not cbetting. So, knowing that the cbet is coming, you have to consider what your actions are. If your thought is folding to a cbet, then you're essentially turning your pocket kings into presto or pocket 7s or whatever middle pocket pair you want to set mine with. In other words, it's no longer a big pocket pair for you.

The hand I was in is totally different and yet similar in the sense that I had to think through the action of the latter street and make a decision on the prior street. When I called the flop bet, it was because he minraised and I felt that if I can catch my two outer, I will stack him. If his hand wasn't all that great, it would be hard for him to bet out. Based on the preflop action, I pretty much eliminated TT+ so on the flop, he either overvalues 99 or 88 (assuming flop was 7 high) or he hit a set. My mind was that I'm drawing for the 2 outer and on the turn, when a J came and he bets out about half the pot (which was also half his remaining stack), I knew that even though the bet was for half his stack, my decision was for his entire stack. There was no sense in calling so it was a shove or fold decision and I felt that I shouldn't overcommit with just one pair, albeit a nice one. I probably didn't have the right odds to draw to a two outer, even on the flop minraise but I also thought maybe he's not quite as strong as he indicates. What I failed to recognize was that he was gonna fire out a turn bet regardless after that checkraise so potentially, it might have been a better move to fold on the flop. Nonetheless, I felt that the turn fold was not so bad and in the end, I was able to capitalize on better situations instead of playing for stacks in a very marginal situation which I have caught myself doing in the past month or so when I was playing overly aggressive (read: BAD).

My leak and goals in review

The other day, I posted something and I received an anonymous comment about how he/she thought WSOP was one of my goals for 2008 and that I need to revisit my goals. Since it's almost the half way point, I figured that it's probably not a good idea. This is my post that described my goals for 2008. So, apparently, WSOP was not my goal, even though admittedly, I thought I said somewhere that I would try harder to make it. On the flip side, not sure what Mr Anonymous wanted me to do. I did play in the two major qualifiers, I was in the TOC, I did play in few of the weekly freerolls, and I fell short in all of them. In the end, I wasn't good enough to get there so I can make it my goal all I want. Nonetheless, the 2 goals in a nutshell were to convert to 6max and win a MTT. Since I didn't play much MTTs to begin with, I thought that would be a tough one but I did kinda win one... It was a 450ish person, 7k or so guarantee. It happened in May and I'm too lazy to link back to it. It was for like $2,200ish. Nothing crazy but not too shabby. Win is a win I guess. So, I guess you can say I achieved that goal.

I guess my lack of enthusiasm is coming from the fact that I actually thought I would be much better at this point. I had high hopes/expectations for myself for this year and to say that I am falling short is an understatement. It would be like saying that the Celtics were barely able to beat the Lakers last night. (You know I would never link up to ESPfuckinN.com site cuz I hate that stupid site)

I will say this. I think I am noticing that the games are getting tougher at 6 max. I don't know if this is just me or not but there are more players I recognize and squeeze plays, 3 bets, OBFV, etc are moves that I am starting to see more and more. In the past, a gross overbet was AK or a draw. These days, it could even be top set. I was not adjusting quick enough and I was overcommitting so much more with weak holdings like one pair. Here are couple of hands where I get taken for (my friend JT always asked me to post hands where I lost so here they are):

PokerStars Game #18052224536: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/06/10 - 18:56:42 (ET)
Table 'Emita IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: mansea ($101.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Alotofaction ($586.90 in chips)
Seat 3: ZeKGB ($494 in chips)
Seat 4: PartyRefugee ($1846.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Dirty Vizzer ($416.20 in chips)
Seat 6: jaywks ($444 in chips)
ZeKGB: posts small blind $2
PartyRefugee: posts big blind $4

Just started the session so I don't know anything about them. Plus I know nothing about players over at Stars since I haven't played there nearly as much as Fulltilt.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dirty Vizzer [Th Td]
Dirty Vizzer: raises $10 to $14
jaywks: folds
mansea: folds
Alotofaction: folds
ZeKGB: folds
PartyRefugee: calls $10

Pretty much ideal situation. I raise from UTG and the only caller is from the blinds so I'll have position on them.

*** FLOP *** [5h 7d 2c]
PartyRefugee: bets $28
Dirty Vizzer: raises $44 to $72
PartyRefugee: raises $1760.85 to $1832.85 and is all-in
Dirty Vizzer: calls $330.20 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($1430.65) returned to PartyRefugee
*** TURN *** [5h 7d 2c] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [5h 7d 2c Jc] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PartyRefugee: shows [5c 7c] (two pair, Sevens and Fives)
Dirty Vizzer: mucks hand
PartyRefugee collected $831.40 from pot

Needless to say, that was a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE call by me. This is like the pinnacle of my poor play. Overaggroing with hands that beat nothing and then CALLING off rest of my stack. It was just bad. But if you want, feel free to pile on. Really, there's nothing to pile on though. I mean... this is about a bad a call as I can make. At least in the second hand, I learned my lesson... sorta...

PokerStars Game #18052832545: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/06/10 - 19:27:10 (ET)
Table 'Dorothea IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: russ0618 ($409.10 in chips)
Seat 2: pharus ($159.50 in chips)
Seat 3: PartyRefugee ($586 in chips) <--- SB
Seat 4: Dirty Vizzer ($1203.40 in chips) <--- BB
Seat 5: tapatapa ($915.15 in chips)
Seat 6: kapie123 ($452.10 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dirty Vizzer [Kd Ks]
tapatapa: raises $8 to $12
kapie123: folds
russ0618: folds
pharus: folds
PartyRefugee: calls $10
Dirty Vizzer: raises $40 to $52
tapatapa: calls $40
PartyRefugee: calls $40

*** FLOP *** [7c 5h Tc]
PartyRefugee: bets $76
Dirty Vizzer: calls $76
tapatapa: folds

So this time, I remembered that the last time he bet out, he actually had a hand. On this board, I still thought it was fairly realistic for him to do it with a draw so I called to at least peel off one more card. If it's not a K, I'm done. Realistically, I can fold here but I'm not THAT good.

*** TURN *** [7c 5h Tc] [9c]
PartyRefugee: checks
Dirty Vizzer: checks

*** RIVER *** [7c 5h Tc 9c] [2c]
PartyRefugee: checks
Dirty Vizzer: checks

When this is checked to me, I did contemplate betting. The only problem was, I wasn't sure how well I can rep a club here and if the guy could fold what might be a pretty strong hand. I also felt that JJ-QQ could be in his range (though doubtful) so I felt that instead of risking a few hundred dollars to see if I can get a fold, I will just showdown my hand.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
PartyRefugee: shows [7d 7h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
Dirty Vizzer: mucks hand
PartyRefugee collected $305 from pot

Sure enough, he had a set and my kings were no good. However, on the turn, if it's a nonclub and he bets out pretty strong, I'm fairly certain I woulda mucked my KK, knowing that he stacked me at the other table in the similar fashion.

Showing restraint on the flop

When I am on top of my game, I think I have a good balance between aggression and restraint. I notice that when I am experiencing downswings, that's when I am committing too many chips preflop and going a little too aggro with overpairs. Sometimes, I just have to remember that an overpair is just one pair. It sounds so simple but sometimes, it requires so much discipline to remember. Other times, it's not as hard. I felt that in the hand below, I think I showed good restraint by not c-betting the flop like most people would in this instance.

PokerStars Game #17931169064: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/06/05 - 11:02:28 (ET)
Table 'Amneris' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: ANGEL2326 ($749.70 in chips)
Seat 3: Dirty Vizzer ($480 in chips)
Seat 4: n1stunna77 ($434.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Skyrre ($400 in chips)
Seat 6: softas ($406.15 in chips)
n1stunna77: posts small blind $2
Skyrre: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dirty Vizzer [Qs Qc]
softas: folds
ANGEL2326: calls $4
Dirty Vizzer: raises $14 to $18
n1stunna77: folds
Skyrre: calls $14
ANGEL2326: calls $14

*** FLOP *** [Js 9s Tc]
Skyrre: checks
ANGEL2326: checks
Dirty Vizzer: checks

I obviously considered betting here. But I was playing fairly well and even though for a split second, I was going to cbet, I asked myself, what would the cbet accomplish? Of course, I can take down the pot if the two other players completely missed this flop but this is one of those flops that hits someone pretty hard. Plus, I figured if someone had a hand like AK, he actually only has 3 outs instead of 6 since the K would give me a straight. Even with an overpair, I more or less just have a draw here against most hands that would call my bet. Of course, there's the flush draw but I just didn't want to unnecessarily build the pot here.

*** TURN *** [Js 9s Tc] [Ad]
Skyrre: bets $48
ANGEL2326: folds
Dirty Vizzer: calls $48

Of course, the turn was a very gross A. I obviously considered folding here but I also thought that the BB's bet was interesting in that if he hit the ace, it seems odd that he would bet out. Plus, $48 is approximately the amount I woulda used to cbet the flop on normal instances anyways so I decided that it wouldn't hurt to use the chips I saved on the flop to see how he acts on the river.

*** RIVER *** [Js 9s Tc Ad] [Kd] <--- golden gloves baby!!!!
Skyrre: bets $100
Dirty Vizzer: raises $100 to $200
Skyrre said, "yeah. please catch more 3 outers" <--- amen
Skyrre: calls $100

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Dirty Vizzer: shows [Qs Qc] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Skyrre: shows [Kc Qh] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Skyrre collected $275 from pot
Dirty Vizzer collected $275 from pot

As he pointed out, I obv got lucky here. It woulda sucked if I had caught the 8. The turn call is obv questionable but I felt that with no cbet on the flop, my hand was concealed enough that I thought the villain could be betting with worse hands here. If a blank river comes and he fires out a $100 bet, I would fold because that's a pretty strong bet. But I believe that by not cbetting the flop, I saved myself a good chunk of chips (though in the end, it doesn't matter but that's not the point). More often than not, people will cbet the flop with an overpair and an OESD and that coulda gotten me in a lot of trouble since I surely woulda gotten checkraised and then I'd be in a very awkward situation.

Sometimes, you just have to look at the texture of the flop and think about what you would accomplish with a bet. In this instance, I felt that the cons outweighed the pros of betting the flop and so I was able to contain my aggression on the flop. Again, if a blank river comes, I would just fold, knowing that this hand only cost me $18 pre and $48 post flop for a total of $66. If I had bet out on the flop for approximately $48 and then get checkraised, now what? Of course, you can say you fold your overpair and OESD but that's a bummer because you coulda seen a free card if you had checked. If you call, the hand coulda cost you a lot more if you didn't catch. Reeling in the aggression is sometimes the hardest thing to do in a 6 max game but I know that when I am playing my best game, I seem to balance the aggression and restraint real well.

A pair and a flush draw

Before I get started, for those of my friends who are nonpoker players who want to read some interesting, enjoyable nonpoker posts, read the trip reports of CK and F-Train as they make their way out to Vegas from NY. They are driving across the country and so far, I think it's been very interesting to follow. CK's first time experience at Walmart is priceless.

"But no Wal-Mart experience would be complete without standing in line behind a woman with an infant baby. In Wal-Mart. After midnight."

Truer words have never been spoken. I was rolling when I read that... and slightly embarrassed that I knew what she was talking about...

Ok, now on with the main part of my post (poker stuff begins here).

Poker players love draws. That is the only explanation that I can think of when I see players overshove preflop with AK. Yeah, I know. Some of you must think AK is a big pair or something... so it might shock you to know that it IS a drawing hand. But against me, get it in because it hits every time. EVERY FUCKIN TIME. Even last night, I have JJ in the CO (this is cash game, not MATH), I raise, button reraises me. I 4 bet, and of course, the button insta shoves which is larger than a normal pot sized raise. At this point, I give his range 90% AK and 10% KK-JJ. So I instacall. Of course, he has AK. Of course, A on the river. Standard. For those of you that say, hey, it's a coinflip, yeah I understand. If giving up 7-8% edge to your opponent is a coinflip (some may even argue +EV), then you all must LOVE casino games. I personally don't. Apparently, I hate to gamble (except craps). Which is also probably why you will never see me win a meaningful tournament. But that is neither here nor there. Apparently, I got up on the wrong side of the bed because this post is starting out as cranky as it can be... but I actually have a strategy topic today. What can I say. I guess I reverse jinxed myself when I said I don't feel like blogging. Cuz now, I am eager to type away.

Alright, so anyways, my main topic today is playing hands where you flop a pair and a flush draw. We love these types of hands don't we? Some of us might consider it a "monster flop." Again, I would like to remind everyone though that it might seem like a great flop with such a great draw but let's keep in mind one thing. It IS a draw. Having said that, I think there are tons of ways to play it which makes the hand so valuable. The question is this though. When should you play it fast and when should you play it cautiously? Now keep in mind, I am not encouraging players to get it in behind. I know most of you would love to do that to build a big pot in a potential "coin flip" situation when in fact, you are behind. I think there are times to play it fast and there are times to play it slow. So here are some HHs that I saved from the last few days where I flop a pair and a flush draw.

2-4NL 6 handed, relevant stacks:
Villain UTG $940
Hero CO $1200+

Dealt to RecessRampage [Qh Jh]
Villain raises to $14
1 fold
Hero calls $14
3 folds

This was an instance where the UTG raiser is a known LAG. UTG raises in 6 max these days really don't mean anything... And especially against this particular villain, I know it didn't mean much. With the stacks being deep, instead of reraising pre, I am working to see more flops in position.

*** FLOP *** [9h 6h Qs]
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain bets $20
Hero calls $20

I am obviously liking this flop. Of course, it's draw heavy and with my flush draw to boot, my initial thought was to raise. But then I didn't. Because the more I thought about it, the more I wasn't sure what that would accomplish. A worse hand would fold. Of course, a draw might chase but again, this guy is aggressive. I don't want to face a big reraise in instances where he might have flopped a set. I am not eager to drop 200BB+ by chasing. And in case you thought, well, you could have the best hand, there aren't too many combinations where I do have the best hand if the guy 3 bets me on the flop. He could obv have JhTh or 7h8h but he could also be bluffing with just a standard cbet so instead of finding out if he has a monster or just cbetting by raising, I opted to call. In actuality, I felt that my hand was too strong to raise here. I am ahead of a significant portion of his betting range so instead of trying to end the hand here, I figured I'd smooth call to see the next card.

*** TURN *** [9h 6h Qs] [Qc]
Villain bets $24
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $24

The Q is obv a great card for me. It's a great card for multiple reasons. For one, if the villain was worried that I had a Q, the second Q on the turn is great because now, he thinks it's less likely that I have a Q and more likely that I'm on a draw. His thought will be "well, if he had a Q, on such a draw heavy board, why wouldn't he raise? oh look, there's another Q. He obv doesn't have a Q so he must be drawing." On my side, I have another reason to not bet. At this point, I am not drawing to anything. In other words, now, I beat all the hands out there that was ahead of me except for a set. Once again, I felt that this would be an instance where I would raise and the hand would end. It was a toss up though. I probably raise here x% of the time and smooth call here y% of the time... I just don't know what the x's and y's are. But I know one thing. On the river, I was hoping for a nonheart.

*** RIVER *** [9h 6h Qs Qc] [3s]
Villain checks
Hero bets $85
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain has requested TIME
Villain calls $85

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero shows [Qh Jh] three of a kind, Queens
Villain mucks [2s 2d]
Hero wins the pot ($289) with three of a kind, Queens

3s was a perfect card for me. Of course, one less and I pay off the villain big time. But on the river, notice that I bet $85 into a pot that has about $120. I wanted to bet a good chunk that would look like I'm looking to get a fold with my missed draw. Which was why I was hoping for a nonheart. The LAG makes a hero call because I smooth called on both streets before showing aggression all of a sudden on the river. The irony of this hand is that if my hand wasn't so strong, I would have played it a lot stronger... In other words, if I had 8h7h or JhTh, I would have played it a lot faster than I would by having top pair. Why? Because with top pair (and the top pair being a fairly high face card), more often than not, I get a worse hand to fold and only a better hand to come along. Not many better hands will fold here so I didn't feel that I should show too much aggression.

Let's look at a different instance.

This is from a 1-2NL, 6 handed

Villain 1 UTG ($167)
Villain 2 UTG+1 ($313)
Hero BB ($390)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Th 9h]
Villain 1 calls $2
Villain 2 raises to $11
3 folds
Hero calls $9
Villain 1 calls $9

This was a horrible preflop call. There's an UTG limp and UTG +1 makes a pot sized raise (the raise was $11 because there was another guy posting from LP). Th9h is a marginal drawing hand and I would be playing it from the worst position AND the UTG limper has yet to act. Fortunately for me, he calls but I just want to state that this preflop call is prob -EV over time. But tis how the hand goes...

*** FLOP *** [5h 6h 9d]
Hero checks
Villain 1 checks
Villain 2 bets $25
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act

Now here, my poor preflop call of a raise is rewarded/punished with a hand that is too good to fold but may not be good enough to win unless I hit. Nonetheless...

Hero raises to $111
Villain 1 folds
Villain 2 has 15 seconds left to act
Villain 2 raises to $301.80, and is all in
Hero calls $190.80
Villain 2 shows [Kd Kc]
Hero shows [Th 9h]

Ok, let's review what happened here. I checkraise an amount which basically commits my entire stack in that if the villain shoves, I'm getting too good of an odds to fold with what I would consider to be having at least 9 outs. But this is 1-2NL... not many people bet out their sets so I figured he is either just cbetting or he has an overpair. Now, why do I say that about this hand and not the previous one? The previous one, I had a Q. In other words, the only overpairs are AA or KK. Here, the flop is 9 high. That increases the overpair range to TT-AA. The reason why I checkraise here is that I really don't want to see any more cards. If he has two overs, I'm ok with him folding after the cbet. If he has a higher flushdraw, then I am ahead and he has less outs than he thinks (ie if he has AhKh, he has 2 less outs since I have 2 hearts). If he has TT or JJ, it could be really hard for him to continue on. If he just calls my checkraise, I'm obv jamming turn regardless of whether I hit or not. Turns out he has a much higher pair so he wasn't going anywhere.

*** TURN *** [5h 6h 9d] [Ah]
*** RIVER *** [5h 6h 9d Ah] [3d]
Villain 2 shows a pair of Kings
Hero shows a flush, Ace high
Hero wins the pot ($636.60) with a flush, Ace high

I obv got lucky but I did have 15 outs twice. The reason why I wanted to include this hand was here, I actually wanted fold equity which I believe I had against some of the hands that might be ahead. Now granted, I don't know how often a hand like TT or JJ would fold here so maybe I didn't have as much fold equity as I thought initially. But even with no fold equity, I believe the odds are so close that even if only TT folds once in a while, it's probably a +EV move. Not sure though. Just sounds good to say it.

Any thoughts? Do you agree or disagree? Anyone think I overplayed the second hand? Anyone think rope-a-dope is NOT a good strategy in the first hand? Any feedback would be appreciated.