Friday, September 21, 2007

Another situation with AA

In my previous post, I asked the question about what you would do when you are faced with a raise on the flop while holding AA and you bet out on a Q high flop. One comment that was made was that I should fold because the opponent is tight. Now, for the purpose of this exercise, I really wanted to know what you would do if you didn't know anything about the opponent. And this is really a tough situation. But folding to a raise on the flop I think is too weak. I mean if you fold your AA on a Q high flop when there's a raiser, you're just gonna get run over. Now let's look at the other option. Calling. Calling is fine but what do you do in the following streets? This is one of my leaks but calling without a plan I think is disastrous. I mean are you now hoping for a scare card so that the pot size could be kept minimal? You are out of position and by calling, you remain out of position AND you give up control of the betting to the opponent. Now, if a blank hits and he bets the turn, what do you do? Call again? Let's say the river is a blank and he shoves, what do you do? Call? If you say fold, then I think that's even worse because a) you already failed in keeping the pot small, b) you never found out how strong your opponent might be (until you flip the cards of course), and c) you could easily be folding to a worse hand. And because you were calling, you never know where you stood and yet you still managed to lose your stack, if he has a better hand.

So, in general, I like the idea of reraising. However, that was the next tough dilemma. I wasn't sure how much to reraise. Why? Because once I reraise, I think I'm pot committed. Let's say I bump it up to $200 (the opponent's raise was up to $70). He smooth calls. Again, you don't have position and if you check and he shoves, would you fold? That seems tough to me. So, with those thoughts in mind, I donkishly shoved, hoping for a KK or KJs (OESD w flush draw) or something... instead, he had pocket tens, hit set on the flop and I got stacked.

Here's another example.

I'm at a 3-6NL full ring table, I have close to my full buy-in of $600 and those involved here have me covered.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [As Ad]
Krakerjacks folds
RazzleDaPhazzle raises to $21
CaHottie calls $21
jpaznstyle folds
mick47 stands up
Warrior Braids folds
mick47 folds
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage raises to $90
piacentini0351 folds
RazzleDaPhazzle calls $69
CaHottie folds

With AA OOP, I wanted to narrow the field and possibly take down the pot right there. At least now we are heads up so at least one of the goals were accomplished.

*** FLOP *** [2d Qh 4c]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $150
RazzleDaPhazzle has 15 seconds left to act
RazzleDaPhazzle raises to $300

Ok, so what now. I reraised preflop, again, we were both deep. I bet out with my AA and now I get minraised. Does typically minraise indicate a monster hand? Did he hit his QQ, 44, or 22? What other hands would he do this with? AA, KK or AQ? Again, another tough spot. And another one of those situations where I didn't want to call because it's almost like damned if I do and damned if I don't. Did my bet seem weak? Is he making a play because he thinks I have AK and trying to represent a big pocket pair? Very similar to the earlier situation... fortunately, with different results.

RecessRampage raises to $498, and is all in
RazzleDaPhazzle calls $198
RecessRampage shows [As Ad]
RazzleDaPhazzle shows [Kd Ks]
*** TURN *** [2d Qh 4c] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [2d Qh 4c 6d] [7d]
RecessRampage shows a pair of Aces
RazzleDaPhazzle shows a pair of Kings
RecessRampage wins the pot ($1,200) with a pair of Aces

These are the two hands that played out very similarly and yet I get paid off in one and pay off in another. Which is obviously what makes it so hard. But did I misplay both hands and get lucky in this one? That's possible too. Maybe this was an instance where I should have folded since the only hand I can realistically beat was KK or AQ. Same as the other example where the only hands I can beat were KK or KJ of clubs or AQ. Again, results really mean nothing in terms of whether I played the hand right or not.

The only other thing to consider is that as a general rule, I'd rather be thought of as a guy who tends to push/call marginal situations than a guy who always folds monster hands. Regardless of what you actually do, you want the image to be that of a guy who errs on the side of calling vs folding so that it's less likely that someone will try to bluff you off a hand.


Fuel55 said...

I guess shoving every time is probably more profitable than folding every time isnt it. Therefore never fold AA.

Gnome said...

These are really tough situations. I've been doing a couple of things recently to try to minimize losses with overpairs.
_Out of position, I've been doing more check-calling in hopes of reaching showdown for cheap, detecting weakness and inducing bluffs. That isn't to say I do this every time or even most of the time, but it's one option.
_I've also been trying to set a budget for AA and KK. Like I'll say to myself, "I won't spend more than half of my stack on this hand, or else I'll be forced to fold."
The thing is, there has to be a way to get away from these overpairs without getting stacked. Sometimes that means playing them weakly.

SubZero said...

Overpairs are good for two things:
winning a medium-size pot or getting stacked.
If you're an aggressive player, you can take the pot size further towards large when you're winning, and you can limit your losses when behind:
If you think you are behind, you can minimise the amount of money going into the pot. Example: after pot-betting a raised pot on a draw-free flop and getting called (especially by a player without position), you can usually assume you are in trouble. To get stacked, there's normally a raise somewhere along the line. By only check/calling the turn when you think you're most likely behind, you prevent such a raise from occurring.
Get a good read on whether you are behind or not, and you will never have to sacrifice much profit by using this play.

oossuuu754 said...

Here is the rub, call and he shows you the nuts, fold and he shows the bluff. Variance is a bitch, I agree with fuel on the ragged flop you go broke every time and just reload.

Klopzi said...

Given the hand example, you can't fold your AA here. You've committed well over a third of your stack and the pot is huge.

Get it all in every time here and you'll make money in the long run.