Sunday, October 21, 2007

26 more to go...

After spending most of the weekend at work, I can't say that I'm in much of a mood to blog... And god dammit... the steelers just fuckin lost. Fabulous...

Anyways... this hand crippled me in the big game and I actually want some thoughts on what you tournament players would do.

Full Tilt Poker Game #3927392757: Blogger Big Game (29406550), Table 6 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:34:02 ET - 2007/10/21
Seat 1: rpinner (3,300)
Seat 2: RecessRampage (3,135)
Seat 3: BuddyDank (2,790)
Seat 4: katitude (2,865)
Seat 5: a104l9 (3,000)
Seat 6: ck31 (2,910)
Seat 7: SnailTrax (3,000)
Seat 8: Blinders (3,000)
ck31 posts the small blind of 15
SnailTrax posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #5

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Jd Jc]
Blinders folds
rpinner folds
RecessRampage raises to 105
BuddyDank folds
katitude folds
a104l9 folds
ck31 folds
SnailTrax calls 75

*** FLOP *** [3s 9d 5s]
SnailTrax checks
RecessRampage bets 195
SnailTrax has 15 seconds left to act
SnailTrax raises to 600

This check raise could be anything I thought. Could be spade draw, a set, etc. So, I decided to define my hand here and see what he does.

RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage raises to 1,800
SnailTrax raises to 2,895, and is all in
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME
RecessRampage folds
Uncalled bet of 1,095 returned to SnailTrax
SnailTrax mucks
SnailTrax wins the pot (3,825)

So, that left me with about 1,100 in chips and I never quite recovered. But here, was this a must call? Was this an instance where I shoulda called? In other words, if he had a draw, there's no point in calling so he would shove there right? His instashove made me think he had a set... In a cash game, this wouldn't really be a question for me but in tournaments where you only have a certain amount of time to accumulate chips and such, was this a situation where I should've gambled? Do I need to loosen up my calling requirements? Any thoughts are appreciated.


Shrike said...

Well, the betting pattern leads me to belive your jacks are no good, so I think you made the proper -- albeit painful -- decision to fold an overpair to what appears to be a flopped set or maybe even a BB special-esque two pair.

AnguilA said...

You know I've already talked about this subject before. If I'm playing my A-game I'm folding to the check-raise. You are only ahead there of TT or some top pair hand (he would have to be really bad to play a huge pot with just top pair...), you are flipping a coin against hands like AK/AQ suited or even 87s, and you're drawing to 2 outs if he has the feared set. Basically, so early in a tournament there's no point in commiting over half of your stack to find out if you're ahead or not. I would just take the 300 chip loss and wait for other spots to chip up. And by the way, I'm probably calling after making such a big reraise. As far as you know, he could still have the huge draw and you're getting 5:1...

My main concern as always is that you may give the look that you can be pushed out of many pots, but I guess you can always try to do kind of the same to other players...

bayne_s said...

In tourney only hands you have beat are TT and Xs9s

jamyhawk said...

Jacks look so good preflop, but they can be so bad... I like the fold, but as you said, you never quite recovered, so why leave yourself that low.

I am going to add JJ to my list of folds preflop to big raises. They seem to be -EV.

Then again, maybe I am just sore because I called in a similar situation to this and went out of the tournament to QQ.

Matt said...

I think the first raise could mean anything from an overpair to Xs9s to even a lower PP raising a perceived c-bet. The shove narrows it down to too few hands that you can beat.

Wondering out loud...I wonder if a bet in the 1500-1600 range gives you enough information but leaves you more behind if you end up folding. Without running the numbers, does the extra 200-300 significantly diminish his calling odds if he's drawing?

Anyways, I say must fold. You're down, but at 1100 in the first level, you're not out.

lucko said...

You can't 3bet and fold imo. Once you make that decision, its go time.