Monday, July 30, 2007

Thoughts appreciated

Ok, so I'm either clueless about what goes on or I'm not paying attention or I'm still not in the loop. Whatever is the case, I discovered last night that the next blogger gathering is tentatively scheduled (?) for 12/6-12/9 in Vegas. Barring any major setbacks (like I'm paralyzed from the neck down, all flights are cancelled for the entire month of December, Vegas implodes before December, etc), I'll be there. Usually, my friends and I schedule an annual trip out there and yet this year, we have yet to go. Between bunch of us getting married or having kids and stuff, it appears that those annual gatherings are getting harder and harder... which is ok with me. I know that generally, when we do have these "annual gatherings", I tend to go out a few days earlier so I can play poker. My friends don't play poker. They like to donate via blackjack, craps and roulette. I'm personally not into blackjack or roulette. I mean a game of chance? Who likes that??? :) But craps, I love. Hey, that's no game of chance. I mean after all, YOU are throwing the dice. ALL SKILL BABY!!!! just like poker... (hopefully, my HEAVY sarcasm is conveyed).

Well, last night, I played in the MATH, $75 token frenzy, tier 2 token sng, and a cash game... all at the same time. Not to make excuses (and you know that when a sentence starts with that, excuses are coming), but I really couldn't focus on MATH at all. I wanted to. But aside from this weird chat going on between ScottMc and WhatSarahSaid (basically, wishing death, rape, and all other hatred on each other), I really couldn't put forth my effort into MATH and so I donked out very soon after the tournament started. Don't get me wrong. Even if I focused on it, I'm not saying it would've been any different. But of the 4 tables open, I was focusing the least on MATH, namely because I was doing well in the other 3 tables and I'm not quite a 4 tabler... So, during that time, I did take down the tier 2 token SNG and I was up about quarter of a buy-in at 2-4NL when this hand came up in the token frenzy.

NewinNov and Smokkee were at my table... well, New was at my table, don't know what happened... maybe he got moved? Told you, I had 4 tables up. But anyways, I was doing well in this thing. I was making good reads and my hands were holding up in situations where I sensed I was ahead and made moderately tough calls.

Anyways, I was in 8th with 53 remaining and top 21 winning the token when this hand came up. Initially, I thought, I would love to get everyone's thoughts but now, the thought is clear for me at least. This was a clear fold situation, only because this was a token frenzy (where coming in 21st is no different than winning the whole thing).

Full Tilt Poker Game #3107378826: $75 Token Frenzy (23212487), Table 3 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:28:00 ET - 2007/07/30
Seat 1: RecessRampage (5,775)
Seat 2: SashaPup (2,585)
Seat 3: Donkeyfish33 (8,295)
Seat 4: yeahok (4,295)
Seat 5: mooreparty (3,005)
Seat 6: macthespoon (4,100)
Seat 7: b_lotheafguy (950)
Seat 8: iamthematador (1,030)
Seat 9: smokkee (4,030)
yeahok posts the small blind of 100
mooreparty posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ad Kc]
macthespoon raises to 700
b_lotheafguy folds
iamthematador folds
smokkee folds
RecessRampage calls 700
SashaPup folds
Donkeyfish33 raises to 8,295, and is all in
yeahok folds
mooreparty folds
macthespoon folds
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage has requested TIME

What would you do? One can argue reraising, etc but please, that's kinda not the point here. I think I reraise if I were shorter but I'm ok with calling in position here with AK. So, aside from that point, when the big stack on the button shoves, what are your thoughts?

Following is my thought process:
a) He's pulling a squeeze resteal - I mean is this not an ideal spot to do so? Two players with decent stack sizes are in the hand, the only guy who can bust them comes in for all his chips, basically, you can't call unless you had a monster holding like a high pocket pair, right? And if I had a high pocket pair, I would reraise more often than not, right?

b) He's got a middle pair and trying to protect it.

c) He's accumulated a decent stack so he must be an action player capable of moves like this (he moved fairly recently so I haven't seen him do much though it's possible I missed it)

d) If he's going for a resteal, worst case scenario for me is that I'm on a bad side of a flip. I could be up against AQ, AJ, or maybe even KQ. If I win, I can pretty much fold to the token.

e) But I'm currently 8th in chips. If I fold, I'm still top 15 for sure.

After weighing these thoughts, but not carefully enough, this is what I did.

RecessRampage calls 5,075, and is all in
Donkeyfish33 shows [Ah As] <--- doh!!!
RecessRampage shows [Ad Kc]
Uncalled bet of 2,520 returned to Donkeyfish33
*** FLOP *** [Jc 5h 6c]
*** TURN *** [Jc 5h 6c] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 5h 6c 4c] [Kd]
RecessRampage: damn
Donkeyfish33 shows a pair of Aces
RecessRampage shows a pair of Kings
Donkeyfish33 wins the pot (12,550) with a pair of Aces
RecessRampage: nh
smokkee: ouch
RecessRampage: gg
RecessRampage stands up

I think the key here was that I was still healthy in chips so I shoulda folded and waited for a better spot. I think I kinda rushed to accumulate a big chip stack which really doesn't matter since you're not really going for the win. Can you say resteal paranoia??? :) Nonetheless, any thoughts you might have are appreciated!


Mike Maloney said...

Yeah, you'd probably be right in folding there. Like you said, you were high up on the leaderboard, do you really want to risk your whole chipstack with AKo when you don't need to? A push like that makes me think he probably has a pocket pair, so there's a very good chance you're at best in a coinflip situation, certainly not something you want to deal with when your already 8th in chips. It's possible that you have him dominated, but not a good one.

I'd only call there with AA-QQ. Just not worth it otherwise. Obviously you got stuck with a worst case scenario where he happened to have aces, but still, I don't like risking my chipstack in a coinflip unless I'm shortstacked and need to take the gamble.

Poker Brian said...


been struggling with this myself. Seems all-in is just a common cheese move anymore, where as an all-in bet that doesnt make sense would signify a strong unpaired, or even 77-10-10, now it could just as well be A-A or K-K.

Been trying to think of the best way to counter this and I think either I just have to fold with anything less then Q-Q like Mike said or try to apply the gap concept.

oossuuu754 said...

Gotta Fold Anna K in that spot. Love his move, he pulled level 3 thinking on you by figuring out that you were holding a big Ace and that you would put him on mid pair or AQ. Be sure to note him as a level 3 player. Or he could just be a complete donk and just didnt want to play a big pot with AA.

Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

I do not love his move of the silly overpush with Aces, the most likely outcome of which would be to cause everyone to fold and he wins just a medium-small pot. Nonetheless, unlike with QQ or KK, with AK you really don't have anything and you are behind any pocket pair already, and well behind AA or KK so I think the fold there is the right move. Good that you can look so open-mindedly at these decisions, that will always serve you well in poker.

bayne_s said...

I think you have to fold AK there.

In standard MTT Donkeyfish33 move with AA is ridiculous. In Token Frenzy picking up the additional 1700 chips without a showdown pretty much guarantees the token.

I will be converting my blog over to a craps blog any day now. There is plenty of skill in throwing the dice.

The most important skill at the craps table is being able to feel the temperature rise before it starts to get hot.

AnguilA said...

I disagree with Hoy, I think it's the right move to pull in that situation. He has the best hand possible, true, but it can still lose in a showdown. So he pushes to at least be sure he's just playing against one man IF one of them actualy calls.

In a satellite once you are in the top spots all you need to do is keep adding safe pots here and there IMO.

As for your play, I would have probably reraised,which would have left me pretty much committed to calling the all in from the aces guy. Had I just called I'm not sure if I would have laid it down although I think it would have been the right play.

Sia said...

I guess you already know my opinion on this one but I think the major point is that this guy had no real incentive to push like he did unless he had a monster (considering he was already in great position to get a token). So, considering that, you got to think that at best you are in a coin flip situation.