Friday, February 9, 2007


When I run so bad in a tournament, I don't even know if I'm any good or not. I'm up $400 for the night in the cash game but I just busted out of the tournament in 1,012th place (1922 started). Not that, that's really any indication of anything. I was probably around 300~th in chips when I busted out with the following:

FullTiltPoker Game #1765413513: FTOPS Event #1 (11291993), Table 14 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:54:27 ET - 2007/02/09
Seat 1: IAMTHELLIQUOOR (8,230)
Seat 2: pwn7s (1,430), is sitting out
Seat 3: kq91rn (3,674)
Seat 4: Phwap (9,698)
Seat 5: nm_21 (3,785)
Seat 6: doleman19 (4,474)
Seat 7: RecessRampage (4,203)
Seat 8: BigNumber3 (7,186)
Seat 9: dhansen (1,990)
IAMTHELLIQUOOR posts the small blind of 80
pwn7s posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to RecessRampage [Ac Qc]
kq91rn folds
Phwap folds
nm_21 folds
doleman19 folds
RecessRampage raises to 400
BigNumber3 calls 400
dhansen folds
pwn7s folds
*** FLOP *** [Qh 7s 3c]
RecessRampage bets 800
BigNumber3 calls 800
*** TURN *** [Qh 7s 3c] [8s]
RecessRampage checks
BigNumber3 bets 5,986, and is all in
RecessRampage calls 3,003, and is all in
BigNumber3 shows [7c 8c]
RecessRampage shows [Ac Qc]
Uncalled bet of 2,983 returned to BigNumber3
*** RIVER *** [Qh 7s 3c 8s] [Jh]
BigNumber3 shows two pair, Eights and Sevens
RecessRampage shows a pair of Queens
BigNumber3 wins the pot (8,966) with two pair, Eights and Sevens
RecessRampage stands up

Did I play that wrong? I bet 800 into a $1300ish pot. Should I have bet more? Did I want to limit the action or encourage action? Let me know what you guys think.


jt said...

I think you played that correct up until the turn (obviously). When the 8 hit and the guy went all-in, that would of given me the message that the Q on the board meant nothing to him at that point. His call was very questionable after the flop, he only had middle pair and either thought you were bluffing and doing a continuation bet (since you raised) or was just naive to think that his 1 of 5 outs was going to hit (2 sevens and 3 eights). Unfortunately for you, the 8 hit and the rest was history. But at that point you were left with a very tough decision: top pair, top kicker and going against someone who went all-in and had you covered. If it was me, and you know how I tend to play, I would of folded (ie A-10). You still had 3000 in chips and blinds were at 80/160. You're M was about 12.5, so there was still time before you needed to start to get need to risk all your chips with the 3rd to 5th best hand on the board. His call preflop could of been anywhere like pocket 7s, 8s, maybe 3s (depending on how tight he was playing) and 7-8. And now that I think about it, 7-8 makes sense. I would of done the same with the same thought process: suited connectors with healthy stack calling a 2.5X raise, raiser contuation bets and I catch a piece so I'll call, hit two pair and bet big to the raiser.

Alan said...

That's true. However, I have gotten to the point where now, unless I know that someone is uber-tight, if he catches trips and I lose, I'm not gonna try to figure out if I should have gotten out of it or not. And personally, I hate the check-bet-fold move here. Because he would have done the same with KQ. Call on the flop because he's not sure I have a Q but don't want to necessarily open up the betting if I do have a monster hand. See what the turn brings. My check was designed to show weakness so that he would bet out. The pot size justified his all in at that point because a pot-sized bet would have put me all in anyways. I mean if you think of it that way, would you have checked the turn if the 8 hit? I would think that would be a very weak-tight play. Will you continue to survive? Sure. But now, you'll have a guy sitting right next to you on your left with a big stack that you contributed to without knowing what his calling requirements are except that from before, you know has a wide range of hands. If I catch cards, that could help but with 3,000 chips left and the blinds climbing up where in a few minutes my M will be less than 10, I'm not sure that that's how I want to survive in a tournament where there are over 1000 people still left.

In reviewing the hand one night later, one thing I should have done is to raise more preflop to really define my hand. If I made a pot-sized raise, that would be $560. Assuming the two callers (or I may have just taken the hand down there), that's $1,680 in the pot. I would make a pot sized bet on the flop to take it down because the size of the pot is now decent enough that it's worth taking it down. If the guy still calls and catches the card and moves in, a) I would be clearly pot committed and b) then he really did get lucky and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

jt said...

I agree that you should of raised much more pre-flop. Online players tend to be more loose so their opening requirements are all over the board (depending on how loose of course). With a raise of 560 and a pot size bet after the flop, this could of had a very different ending. And I see what you're saying about the check-bet-fold move and it's consequencses. (Now in your scenario if he had KQ, I think he would of raised after your 800 bet to see where he stood if he took your initial bet as a continuation bet) HOWEVER, that does set up for future play and trapping (if the opportunity ever came). I just think that even though you are left with 3000 and a M of between 8-12, you still have some play left and can damage chips leaders (up to maybe 8000) if you decide to push and they have moderate hands.

Sia said...

Sorry....a little late....but I agree the JT analysis. I think you played it right and he played it wrong post flop but once he went all in, it becomes a tough call. In that situation I would have tried to lay it down and assumed he also had a queen ane then caught two pair (maybe playing Q/8 suited)