Friday, December 28, 2007

Should I have stacked this guy???

Here's a hand from the 6 max table where I am debating internally on whether I played this right or if I could have made more money from this hand by playing it differently. Just to give you a quick background, I stacked this player that I'm gonna tangle with earlier when I cracked his poorly played KK with my QJ (turned 2 pair, got it all in on the turn, obv). He wasn't angry or anything in the chat. He acknowledged that he played poorly but just keep in mind that he and I already got into a big pot before.

Full Tilt Poker Game #4624345801: Table Sunrise (6 max) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:40:52 ET - 2007/12/25
Seat 1: smithroger_777 ($302.75)
Seat 2: ludko ($200.20)
Seat 3: RecessRampage ($375.55)
Seat 4: CSDROCKS ($172.50)
Seat 5: End Your Trauma ($293)
Seat 6: nortmansdad ($67.05) <--- my nemesis
RecessRampage posts the small blind of $1
CSDROCKS posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Qc Qd]
End Your Trauma folds
nortmansdad calls $2
smithroger_777 folds
ludko folds
RecessRampage raises to $8 (from the SB)
nortmansdad calls $6

*** FLOP *** [2s Jd Tc]
RecessRampage bets $14
nortmansdad calls $14

Fairly standard so far. The opponent limps from EP, I raise from SB and he calls. Flop comes J high, I bet out and he calls. At this point, I figured he hit a piece of the flop. The guy only has $45 left behind after this call so I'm gonna bet regardless of what card comes on the turn...

*** TURN *** [2s Jd Tc] [Ah]
RecessRampage has 15 seconds left to act
RecessRampage bets $45

And this is where I think I made a mistake. I am fairly confident that he doesn't have AJ. If he had AJ, he woulda raised preflop. He could have KQ even though I would be a little surprised that I don't see a raise. And if he just had a naked ace, he wouldn't call my flop bet which was essentially a quarter of his stack... I think. Of course, all these things are just my reads but that was what I shoulda thought during the hand... I obviously didn't because I bet out the remainder of his stack when the ace falls, knowing that most likely, that ace didn't help him. So in other words, I knew that the ace didn't help him and yet I continue to put pressure on him.

This is what happens...

nortmansdad has 15 seconds left to act
nortmansdad: great card
nortmansdad folds
Uncalled bet of $45 returned to RecessRampage
RecessRampage wins the pot ($43.70)

The reason I think this was a mistake was I may have left $45 on the table. If I check the turn, I would at least be giving him the opportunity to bluff at me. If my read was what it was that I described above, his bet should not scare me. Because the board was starting to become fairly draw heavy, I don't mind my bet but I also do wonder if I coulda taken some more of his money. He later reveals to me that he had KJ. If I check the turn, who knows if he woulda bet but I woulda loved to have given him that opportunity. But I don't know. It's probably so close that either way is excusable. Just another way for me to dissect my hand.


Shrike said...

Given his stack size and the strength of your hand, I would have to say you're willing to play for his stack no matter what he might have. Checking to induce a bluff is a good line to take if you think he'd bet hands worse than yours, representing top pair.

Overall I like the bet-check(/call)-bet line the most here. The bet-bet line earned you less money, I would say.

Fuel55 said...

You're upset about not extracting "max" value with 2nd pair? LOL

Chad C said...

How can you not bet that turn? If you don't you are basically telling this guy I have QQ or KK and he is either going to bet, or raise your river bet with air. I think you have to bet the turn for info because you know if he calls you are most likely DEAD because he is gonna have JJ or AJ for sure. If he raises he is either just out playing you, or being serious so you can pitch middle pair right? I dunno, I'm no cash game expert..... This is why I like your blog, its 90% poker content :)

HighOnPoker said...

I would've put in a small bet on the turn. This way, you induce him to push all-in on top of you.

I think your $45 bet is actually kinda backward. You are only getting called by an Ace or better, so a $45 bet is definitely not the way to go. I also wouldn't check because this would induce a push on the scary Ace, at which point you'd have to fold. Instead, I bet $14, the same as your flop bet. It looks like you are weak to bet the same amount twice, thus inducing pushes with second best hands or as a bluff. Then you call, since you have already decided to play for his entire stack.

BamBam said...

Alan, "EH-Vegas" is February 23 and there will be quite a bit more information about it in Bedrock, The TuckFards and of course on Kat's site. Kat is the driving force with some local support from us. We discussed it a little bit more this past weekend and I am sure that Kat will start getting the news out soon.

I will make sure you are aware of any information as it comes out.

RaisingCayne said...

I think Fuel has a point here... you can't lose sleep over not making the 'maximum' with your mediocre holdings. It's not like you had the nuts! And despite your read being spot on that you were indeed ahead after the turn card, did you really want to let him see an affordable river? Yes in hindsight with the knowledge he was holding KJ specifically, you could've MAYBE wanted to induce more money into the pot... but personally I think your bet was perfect to put him all in on that turn card.

Anonymous said...

I think you should check behind on turn. Then if a Q came on the river, and he pushed, you instacall with a set of Q's and lost to his straight with KJo.

The reason is it is hard to get all his money, so you want to lose some back to him and then stack him later. Keep the fish happy.

Klopzi said...

His stack was too small to worry about your bet-size on the turn. You've stacked him before and he could easily have pushed on the turn or called with many hands.

You could have tried over-betting the flop to $20 and he might called putting you AK/AQ or a c-bet bluff. By the time the turn rolls around, the pot's too big and his stack's too small to make folding an option if he has anything.

All in all, the ace on the turn screwed you over.