Did I overplay my QQ? I have to admit, the fact that this guy has a K didn't even cross my mind. In my mind, there wasn't a single hand that contains a K that he woulda played it the way he did was what I thought. I obviously thought wrong.
Full Tilt Poker Game #4636187257: The Mookie (34950110), Table 6 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:26:59 ET - 2007/12/26
Seat 1: leftylu (2,610)
Seat 2: RecessRampage (3,275)
Seat 3: schlepp571 (5,730)
Seat 4: heffmike (3,815)
Seat 5: IslandBum1 (6,015)
Seat 6: Drizztdj (2,840)
Seat 7: muhctim (2,725)
Seat 8: katitude (1,065)
Seat 9: BigSlickNut (3,720)
schlepp571 posts the small blind of 25
heffmike posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Qs Qh]
IslandBum1 calls 50
Drizztdj folds
muhctim calls 50
katitude folds
BigSlickNut folds
leftylu calls 50
RecessRampage raises to 325
schlepp571 folds
heffmike folds
IslandBum1 folds
muhctim calls 275
leftylu folds
*** FLOP *** [Kh 7d Kc]
muhctim checks
RecessRampage bets 550
muhctim raises to 1,100
RecessRampage raises to 2,950, and is all in
muhctim calls 1,300, and is all in
RecessRampage shows [Qs Qh]
muhctim shows [Ks Jc]
Uncalled bet of 550 returned to RecessRampage
*** TURN *** [Kh 7d Kc] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [Kh 7d Kc 6s] [As]
RecessRampage shows two pair, Kings and Queens
muhctim shows three of a kind, Kings
muhctim wins the pot (5,625) with three of a kind, Kings
When he checkraised me, I figured he was trying to see where he was with his middle pocket pair. I thought the only hand that had me beat would be 77. Did I overplay my queens? Would anyone do anything different here?
Even in looking at my hand, I just can't imagine getting away from this hand. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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12 comments:
I think you overplayed your queens. What can your victim be check-raising with on this flop? I would not 3-bet all-in on this flop because the only hands that call your 3-bet have you crushed -- you have no fold equity and the board is XXY. Now, admittedly, it's a very narrow range of hands that have you beat, and your opponent just happened to have the pesky KJ within the KJ-KQ-AK range that you'd expect to see here (beyond the obvious flopped set of sevens).
Oh and just to be clear I'm probably stubborn enough to be a payoff wizard here too.
It's of the utmost importance that you don't assign a range based on how you would play a hand, but how would others play it.
Even though you would never limp-call with KJ-KQ out of position, it doesn't mean others won't do it. In fact a lot of players will.
I would probably fold there to the check-minraise...
He just outplayed you bad. You got sold on him having a 7. It happens. Make a note on him and if you see him again you will know he bets big hands and proceed with caution.
You ran into a donkey playing "The DOnkey". Not that unusual a holding in Mookie.
I definitely agree with Bayne here. Donkey made a horrible pre-flop decision that paid off tremendously for him.
Although, I have to say, the min re-raise on the flop did provide you with a little means to let the hand go... (albeit I can't say that I would have either.)
I'm shocked at how many people are criticizing your play here. I don't think I even have KJ in my range of hands here. Although, I would have certainly considered A/K and as raisingcayne said, the min re-raise definitely could have indicated to you that you were dealing with a K.
Either way....seems like a buster play by your opponent. Donk move. Donk cards.
KJ is like that hand you see when you first start playing poker and you think to yourself ("sweet....two face cards! They're so shiny"!!!!)
Then you realize in your poker progression that it's a garbage hand.
It's the bronze medal of whole cards. No thanks.
He should have never called your pre-flop raise.
Vegas countdown . . . 33 hours.
-PouringReign
Not that anyone would come back here for thoughts... but first of all, I nixed AK as a range of hands. I just thought he would raise preflop if he had AK.
Watching him play afterwards, I did realize that he was not as good. So, then I could now see how he would limp, then call a raise with KJ.
The only thing is I feel like on the flop, without having any knowledge on the player, the minraise felt like he could do that with a much wider range (waffles, i didn't just think he had a 7. I'm not retarded - But I also thought 88-TT was a fairly reasonable holding and maybe he's raising to see where he stands since I could just be c-betting with hands like AQ, AJ, etc). I thought about calling (this was not an instajam, FYI) but then he only has another 1,300 behind. When a blank hits the turn and he bets, how do I fold there?
You can't. You have to make up your mind on the flop immediately once you're check-raised ... I'm not saying I'm good enough to dump it so easily, but I can't find a 3-bet on this flop. I don't want to flat call and subsequently fold to a pot-sized bet on the turn either, which is why I lean towards folding. But I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight knowing opponent had the silly KJ.
I hope you find joy in the fact that this is the first comment I've made since getting back from my vacation.
I don't think it's unreasonable to put a K in his limp-call preflop range, but I'd like to think it wouldn't be any worse than KQ sooted. Seeing KJo was a bit unexpected (although I'm becoming less & less numb to it after slumming the $5 games so much). I think monsters are out of his range considering limp-call; I agree with your general assessment of a medium pair, although I'd probably even take TT out of that range considering his position, or make it less likely at least.
Moving to the flop, I can agree with your assesment that he's trying to find out where his middle pair is IF he thinks you missed the flop or weren't that strong to begin with (and I'm not sure how he could come up with that based on your play so far). If he thinks\knows your strong, his thought is probably that the check-minraise might extract more than a bigger raise. Honestly, I'm still not sure if I credit his check-raise as brilliant or donkish (my opinion of his preflop call is a bit stronger).
Trying to not let hindsight affect my opinion, there's probably some merit in checking the flop to control the pot size in position against an unknown opponent. I think you have to be pretty certain that your opponent doesn't have a K to rereraise all-in on that flop, and I think your only mistake is eliminating that from the range of someone you've hardly played against.
Great post as always & Happy New Year!
Well played. I like it.
i am late to this party, but i had a similar situation the other night in the 24k when i raised pre w/ QQ, and got check raised on a K99 flop (by a limp caller). i let my QQ go, and i think you have to do that here also.
you only have a finite number of chips in a tournament and a check min raise says he has a hand. he could be bluffing (or semi bluffing as you say w/ 88-TT) but even if he is you have 2400 chips left if you fold. i think you can wait for a better spot to get your money in good. lastly, it's the mookie, and i don't think a limp call w/ KJ is out of everyone's range.
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