Tuesday, March 25, 2008

No TOC seat yet and another cash game situation with AK

Came close to a TOC seat last night but I couldn't close it out and instead spewed chips unnecessarily. Thanks to all who railed me. Sorry Jamy for not being able to put your chips to good use. Considering all the sucking out I did, I probably didn't belong at the final table to begin with so as much as it sucks to not be able to win on a night when everything was going my way, it probably serves me right. Aside from the TOC seat, there's a lot of money riding on winning a seat as well as continuing to do well with all the side bets going on. I think the amount in total side bets that could be won is close to $3k. Yeah, we're pretty sick degenerates. It's more than the $2k WSOP package. Good stuff. Oh, and bone-daddy, I believe you owe Corron10 a whole year's worth of beer. He's the one that busted me last night. Stupid bounties.

Alright, so did I say something about not posting hand histories? HA HA HA HA HA... if I stopped posting HH's, I will have nothing to post. I think Gnome said it best...

"I feel like posting strategy advice helps me as much as it helps anyone reading it. Writing out my thoughts solidifies them and improves my game."

So, I think the direction (unless I get specific requests) I would go with is that I would continue to post questions from hand histories and my thoughts in a hand as it pertains to the question. If that helps the reader, great. If not, that's fine too. Again, if you have any specific questions, I will be happy to address it. There is one another topic I'm supposed to get to in regards to collusion and cash game play but it's still a work in process (or more like thought in process). Sorry!

Anyways, here's a hand with AK and I want some thoughts on how you might play it differently.

Full Tilt Poker Game #5771352171: Table Alta (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:05:33 ET - 2008/03/24
Seat 1: dirtyfolder ($761.90)
Seat 2: jiggyji ($469.60) <--- SB
Seat 3: Lvl18Wizard ($578.15) <--- BB
Seat 4: Doornail8 ($591.85)
Seat 5: RecessRampage ($458.50)
Seat 6: Billy Lexington ($891.40)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RecessRampage [Ah Kh]
Doornail8 folds
RecessRampage raises to $14
Billy Lexington folds
dirtyfolder has 15 seconds left to act
dirtyfolder raises to $48 <--- from the button
jiggyji folds
Lvl18Wizard has 15 seconds left to act
Lvl18Wizard folds
RecessRampage calls $34

Ok, preflop, how often do some of you repop here knowing that you're gonna be OOP? This is one aspect where I think I need to change up my game. One thing that came to my mind was if I had QQ, KK, or AA, it would be very rare for me to repop it here. No particular reason, it's just rare that I do. So, I didn't want to play AK differently. Now that I look at it though, I think I need to incorporate 4 betting into my preflop strategy. Any thoughts? How often do you 4 bet in a full 6 max situation and what range?

*** FLOP *** [5c Tc Kd] <--- obv, great flop for me

I'm actually gonna make this a two part post. I want to know how everyone would play this. The flop is as seen above and the villain just reraised you preflop. However, you did flop TPTK. So the question is, how do you play this? Do you bet out, effectively telling the opponent you have a K? Do you check, with the intention to raise, again, indicating that you have a K? Or did you think check call? Check fold? Of course, I jest. You're not check folding here. If you are, you would be folding AK preflop.

Also, keep in mind, if you bet, how much? And why (not why $x bet but rather, why bet out?). What do you do if you bet and the guy shoves? What do you do if you check raise and the guy shoves?

I know I threw out a lot of questions but I want you to think of the texture of this flop as well as what you would do on the turn and/or the river. I think that thought should always enter your mind when you are playing a hand since in a cash game, it's not always preflop or flop poker.

Oh, and for those of you that said depends on the villain and his stats. I don't have a software so I don't have any stats but I was fairly new to this table so I don't know this guy. But a typical 2-4NL 6 max players are fairly aggressive and squeezes and resteals are generally in most people's arsenal. Considering his stack size, I have no reason to believe any different.

I would love to hear your thoughts. I'll recap the hand tomorrow.


cmitch said...

Get a HUD already. :)

PF - If the guy was fairly tight then I am probably just calling. If he has a habit of 3 betting on the button then I am 4 betting with AK almost every time. FWIW, I am 4 betting with AA, KK, and sometimes QQ/JJ/AQ/atc in that spot also. There are just so many guys at 2/4 that have a habit of 3 betting on the button with atc. With no reads, I'm 40/60 between 4 betting and flat calling.

Flop - I would usually opt for the c/r and this is a spot where I would probably go broke with TPTK if the villain is aggressive. If he is tight or has a low aggression factor, I might play it pretty passive - check/call/lead turn or check turn and see how he reacts. Leading out is fine also, if you are going to be willing to get ai if he re-raises you. If you lead out it looks so much like a flush draw that he may rr with hands as weak as A10, JJ, QQ. With no reads, I'm check raising and getting it all in if he re-raises. If he flat calls and the turn isn't a club or 10, then I am leading with a pot size bet or shoving on the turn.

", I think I need to incorporate 4 betting into my preflop strategy"

I agree. IMO, at 2/4 you have to combat the constant 3 betting by 4 betting at least your big hands, espec when oop and against loose button 4 bettors. If you use this hand as an example, then the button will win the pot almost every time you don't flop an ace or king even with atc.

Corron said...

ship it!

Riggstad said...

I like leading out here, for about 2/3's with the intention of calling any shove. If he has AA so be it, but with the propensity to steal and squeeze at these levels, his range could be anywhere.

I think by leading out 2/3's, instead of a pot, you take away the certainty that you have AK, but it should still be very clear that is your most likely holding.

Eric a.k.a. Bone Daddy said...

meh, I hate playing ace king post flop OOP.

But in this case, I have to side with Mitch as 6-handed 2/4 is an over aggressive spat on humanity. I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices here, you have a strong hand, and if he has aces, then so fucking be it.

I myself would cold call pre-flop and then check raise the flop for extra value.

Fuel55 said...

Check shove and pay off his KTs.

pokerpeaker said...

Kinda funny here. At my levels, people rarely, rarely re-raise at all, so I would be careful, I'd check call and then even possibly fold if he shoves on the turn. I know that seems incredibly weak, but at my levels, he either has KK or AA because people never, ever three-bet. If I had a decent read on the guy I'd act differently of course.

Alan aka RecessRampage said...

Peaker, to your point, at 2-4NL 6max, you ever see two people into a flop without a reraise. Of course it happens but 3 bet is VERY COMMON.

WillWonka said...

Without reading the comments so far, I don't mind a call with AK OOP. His button raise could mean almost anything. Also, like you, I'm not a big 4 better.

With that flop and given your stack size, I think I would opt for the check / push.

Story changes a little bit if he checks behind.

Gnome said...

I would usually 4-bet preflop.
My general rule of thumb is that I'll cold call with AK in position, but almost never out of position.
As played, I would go for the big check-raise. You won't get paid off too often, but at least you gain one bet on the flop from the near-guaranteed continuation bet that you know is coming.

spritpot said...

I think it's a matter of whether you want to check-call the flop or go ahead and check-raise the flop. I don't see the point in leading the flop. If you check-call the flop, there are about 12 turn cards that are kind of gross (clubs and nines). Maybe a Q or a J doesn't look so good either.

The problem with check-raising is that you probably don't get much value from worse hands. I don't see QQ or KQ putting in any more money after a c-bet. But you definitely get it in when you're beat. At a 6-handed aggressive game, I think you have to go broke with TPTK in this hand or you'll get run over in other hands. The trick is to make sure you maximize the money in the pot the times that you have the best hand to counter the times you get stacked when you have the worst hand.

I think the best play would be to check/call the flop and lead for 3/4 pot or maybe a little more on any non-club turn and call a shove. I think this is the best way to play it against an aggro player, rather than the check-raise on the flop, because he might come over the top on the turn with a draw or maybe even QQ, where you're really betting enough to price him out of his draw. If it's a club...I think check and hope he checks behind. It's tough to continue in that spot, even though he will be bluffing a large % of the time.